Rant about religion and army.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Dowding
A little condescending aren't we? Of course I've considered my own mortality. I also believe that anything I achieve here will be dust in a few hundred years, and that's being very optimistic. The only thing that continues is our genes. The best we can hope for, in my opinion, is that our genes carry on through the generations and perhaps a part of the morality we give to our kids continues too.

Those that believe in a god aren't stupid. I know plenty of clever Christians, and some are definitely more intelligent than me. Are you now saying that a belief is validated according to how intelligent the believer is? Sounds like an odd concept to me.

Perhaps I am a bit condescending. And perhaps I'm trying to tell you that it's impossible for you to view life the same when you are young as when you are old.

I think you know what I was saying about your pride. Maybe I'm wrong and it doesn't apply in your case. Only you would know that and I'll trust your honesty.

Continuing through your genes is still fleeting. Eventually the sun will burn out or the Universe will collapse and everything that we ever were or will be will cease to exist. No deep sleep, no rebirth through your genes, no anything. Nothing, unless there is something beyond our physical realm.

You might question why we even feel this need to continue rather than dismiss it as a "weakness".

[FUNKED1]

Yeager, the word you are looking for is ornery.

[Dowding]

And perhaps I'm trying to tell you that it's impossible for you to view life the same when you are young as when you are old.

Of course. You're talking about circumstance and context - but that applies equally to theists and non-believers. How many believers turn their back on the church after some horrible personal tradgedy? It goes both ways. Although, personally, those that do that must have been living in a dream land, believing nothing bad happened in the world. Or perhaps they thought they were special compared to those that died in agony and fear, for instance. Who knows.

Continuing through your genes is still fleeting. Eventually the sun will burn out or the Universe will collapse and everything that we ever were or will be will cease to exist. No deep sleep, no rebirth through your genes, no anything. Nothing, unless there is something beyond our physical realm.

That is, of course, true. And that is a scary idea. But so is becoming infected with AIDS or being paralysed in some car accident or myriad other terrible fates. You have to live your life with that knowledge, without becoming obsessed by it. At the moment, that's no problem to me.

I think you know what I was saying about your pride. Maybe I'm wrong and it doesn't apply in your case. Only you would know that and I'll trust your honesty.

I understand, but I'm not particularly proud of my beliefs.

You might question why we even feel this need to continue rather than dismiss it as a "weakness".

Social conditioning if you're asking. We're raised to believe we are special, that we have dominion over everything we see and that our lives have meaning in the grand scheme of things.

Now, I've had enough of this meta-physical bollocks, and I've got lots of work to. Good luck with your beliefs!

[AKIron]

Social conditioning? Perhaps. However, I was referring to the we as a species and not just you and I. Certainly we both know the argument that religion was a device created to socialize and/or control people. But as individuals why do we have the deep yearning to be more than we are? Dismiss it any way you like or attribute it to purely physical reasons like survival of the species but don't deny it's there.

[MrLars]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
"there's no such thing as an athiest in a fox hole"

Nice quote...but not true.

It's better to have men that are focused on their survival rather than some devine way to get out of the situation. That was a feeling held by many in my experience.

A good number of dying soldiers call for their mother instead of god also.

As a 'feel good' quote it works...but reality is a bit different.

[Yeager]

Yeager, the word you are looking for is ornery.
====
thanks funked.  Sometimes I just like the way a word looks.

examples:

Xtra (as in "arent ewe Xtra special")

B4 (as opposed to AFTER)

Taint (as in "Taint Rat")

Tidnt (as in "Tidnt Rat")

Caint (as in "Caint be rat, Caint it?")

[Charon]

Cant remember who said it but pretty applicable. I remember when I was in boot camp I had NO desire to go to church on sundays. The Drill Instructors persuaded me otherwise. Those who did not attend religious services were placed on extended cleaning details. I soon realized going to church and getting a little spiritual recharge after a hard week was a GOOD thing. Not to mention it was the only time of the week I got to get away from the DIs.

Gunslinger

LOL, same in the Army. A buddy and I did manage to find a nice hidden spot to nap for a couple of hours during this time (on a linoleum floor, but when you're that tired...). Then, some knob looking to get a "trainee of the cycle" award or whatnot ratted us out. The funny thing is, the DS gave us some 5-minute detail cleaning out the supply closet (which we would have been doing anyway) and screwed the knob's chance to get the award and one-stripe (PFC) promotion for being such a tool

Charon

[type_char]

Lets see now my belief is that God gives everyone a gift. That being life. You live your life then when you die, he recieves you again. There are alot of god posers out there, fake saints and radical bomb assault rifle wielding freaks. I put them all in the same group if you ask me. Even the less radical ones do more harm than good.

Believing in god aint gona prevent you from getting blown up or something. However these days having a very radical belief in god in your everyday life will get you blown up.

[hawker238]

I think I'm a Catholic so I can make jokes about it.  The Irish works well too.

[Ossie]

Hey Schadenfreude, out of curiosity, and since I'll be shipping out in a few weeks, what's your list? So far I think the best thing I have is a pair of waterproof socks.

Oh and as far as the topic, I don't consider myself to be religious, nor do I consider myself an atheist/agnostic. I guess when it comes to the subject of transcendant universal godliness and the like, I just don't give my own comprehension enough credit to make a justifiable assertion either way.

[Rude]

Originally posted by Dowding
Smugness? I'd say that making the assertion that people abandon perhaps life-long held principles on their death bed, simply to assuage your own personal belief superiority complex is the embodiment of smugness. It's practically ghoulish and a very old cliche.

I'd like the idea of some meta-physical wager, if the concept wasn't firmly based on complete and utter bollocks. The 'bet' was a figure of speech.

The need to believe in a greater being is a symptom of the human mind's incomprehension of the size of the universe and its timescale. Keep to your beliefs and I'll keep to mine.

Such a smart young fellow....highly intelligent, yet cannot grasp the simple concept of Faith....to you, merely some mindgame played by those so much weaker than yourself.

The Bible defines Faith as the following....

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not yet seen.

Hebrews 11:1

Of course, we all know that if you cannot see it, then it don't exist....sorry, I forgot that logic.

[lord dolf vader]

rejected christianity at 12

became a buddist at 24

war at 25

still a buddist.

if you meet budda on the road kill him!

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Chairboy
When someone is dirt poor, they're more likely to buy lottery tickets because they hope they'll win.  Check out the ratio of lotto tickets bought by people on welfare vs. those who drive a Lexus.

Just because you hope for something doesn't make it so.

I'd just like to add that my dog needs a bath since that's about as relevent.

[fd ski]

Well Rude, i'm on Downding's side of this.

Substance of things hoped for ?

So faith sources from our needs and desires which haven't yet materialised ?
While I could agree with above statement I don't see why it has to invariably lead to christian god.

"I have a faith i will be sucessful in life "( just making an example ).
This may have not happend yet, to the fullest, but I will bust my bellybutton and from having seen people do the same and suceed I have a good chance of doing the same.

That's faith - reasonable, rational faith.

"I have a faith that after I die, my soul will take a walk though the pearly gates and live forever in paradise"
Problems: no proof of existance of such a thing as soul.
No proof that afterlife exists.

That's faith you are talking about: blind to reason and rational thought, condesending to those not as blind, faith.

I know you are a raligious man, and that's ok with me.
We spoke on the subject before in Dallas, and I believe that dispite our "faith" differences, we have more in common then anything.

But I suffer from the same "problem" that Downding does ( i think ). Deep down inside, I just don't "feel" presence of anything more. I don't feel presence of God or some other omnipotent being. If we were to debate here on the forum and you were to rationalise the existance of God to me, then whole thing would stop being a faith and become a fact. So I think we can agree that faith demands some "unknown".
We only differ of how uncertain it is.

[Krusher]

Originally posted by Dowding
Talk about a huge generalisation, and a very condescending one too. I bet there are plenty of atheists out there who die without giving into to that particular human weakness.

 

So did you have any problem with this threads author generalizing religion and its tie to violence.