Author Topic: thank you allies ;)  (Read 979 times)

Offline straffo

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thank you allies ;)
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2004, 03:27:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Pretty safe to assume I should be happy, then.


No, you should smell funny.

:p

someone got a Virtuti Militari ... but I've not found a book pretenting it was a miracle ;)
I'm half kidding I don't know the influence de Gaulle had during this war.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2004, 03:34:14 PM by straffo »

Offline Saurdaukar

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thank you allies ;)
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2004, 03:38:27 PM »
Hey man, you guys are the ones that turn your nose up to soap.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2004, 03:41:36 PM »
soap ?
is it this modern invention I've heard off ?
like shower of bathroom ?

Will try it next year ,thanks for the idea :)

Offline rpm

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« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2004, 04:34:24 PM »
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Originally posted by bike killa
What is really interesting for me is that someone in the states take care about it :)

Boroda, as most if not every country that have a border were fighting by the ages. I'm not a history master but as i remember we could date "our" fights as a more then 1000y old (or longer).

Once we are inviders then you were. That's the way it been by ages.

It's not bad and it's not good. I'd say it's normal in a relations between the nations in europe. That's true we've saved the Vienna as it's true We've invaded Kiev.

Thing are more complicated when we think about the Lwow. We claim it as a Polish city and it's currently not ( i believe it stays that way with some good share of poles living there... about 40%? I'd never start a fight for it and i believe it's good like it is now). This is because the land was yours/ours/outs/ours and so on...

As for the "red hordes" actually your army was a red one (not a expert in a Russian history again, but Red army destroyed the White russian army... killed the "white elite"?). At that time we were more white then red for sure. Looking for that perspective "red horde" is offending, but "red army" is true.

Your attack on our lands at 17.09.1939 is a fact. Also a fact is that after the was you (and by you i mean you as a country not as a people) was not welcome here, but you ruled us. Russians 've killed many of our officers duriong and after the war.
Then i have to mentin the Polas murdered a lot of Russions when had the chance. I never forgot about it... in both cases it's just how things looked here. Right or wrong it just been that way.

I'm not that old but i do remember being insuling and calling a lier because of saying that Russia attacked Poland in '39 when i was in a primary school (Happened that my grandpa was a soldier and were fighting on our eastern borded, then prisonec 40km from Russia). Was it shameless rewriting a history? Of course. That is what Russia did and called the attack a "brotherhood help".

We (Poland and Russia) are same fair here.
Also i do like Russians as a people (know 20+ guys about my age). They are not guilty about the history as i am not about what we did :) We just living on the same part of the world and have our history.

What an EXCELLENT POST!
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Offline Maniac

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« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2004, 04:53:45 PM »
Thx for the post bike-kill,

being half polish i must say im ashamed at the little polish history i know... I only know about WWII but further back i dont know anything...

The attack on the Turks sounds amazing, anywhere i can read up more about it?

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Offline Otto

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« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2004, 05:05:07 PM »
Europe....!     Don't you just love it?   I know I do...:)

Offline bikekil

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« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2004, 05:12:41 PM »
first one i've found Maniac :)

don't forget to scroll down as my first thought was that webpage is so short ;)

http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/EastEurope/ViennaSiege.html

Offline straffo

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« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2004, 05:12:43 PM »
You know more of the Polish history than you think :)
You're swedish no ? did the 30 year war remind you something ?

Try to look-up : Jean (Jan ?)  Sobiesky ,Marie de la Grange d'Arquien (Jean's wife) ,king Casimir and Wisniowiecki (spelling ?)

Offline bikekil

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« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2004, 05:26:32 PM »
Another one i've found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna

Very close Straffo :) It'd be Jan Sobieski ; prince Jarema Wisniowiecki (as we are on the eastern border of Poland)

Not sure who Casimir the king would be... probably Kazimierz?

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2004, 05:49:14 PM »
Thx bike, got some reading to do this weekend...

Yep Straffo, im from Sweden, Swedish father Polish mother... Bad mix :)
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Offline Raubvogel

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« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2004, 06:04:09 PM »
That's an interesting read, thanks for the post bike. I'm 1/4 Polish, my grandmother was from Gdansk, but I'm not really up on much of the history.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2004, 01:37:36 AM »
yep BikeKilla I thought of Kazimierz :)

I'm half polish myself (and half dutch too)  but I've trouble reading and writing polish having not learned it :(

The history of Poland got an high interest for sentimental reason and also because it's a complete mess :D

You still want Ukrain back  ?  (I'm pulling your leg Bike ;))

Offline bikekil

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« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2004, 02:46:55 AM »
hehe Straffo, honestly i think we Poles never should be there. Of course some good share of Polas living there as well as good share of Ukrainians living here, but i like it the way it is.
People who lived close to the border (on both sides) did a lot of horrible things in the XX century (especially around the WW2), like burning the Villages with Civilians... and ot was not done b y a military forces... just a "everyday" people livin in the "next" village. some years ago we were told at shool that there was any fighting... then that Polish nobles (?) burned the Ukrainian working class, then after '89 we were told that Ukrainian hordes burned poor Polish people... now after some research (also after we got the communistic archives here) it's clear that Soviets (aka commies) wanted to have it that way and provoked it on both sides, so the people here and there started to hate each other, blame the neighbour for everything bad that happened and so on...

I believe it's good like it is now :)

Other then that you also have to realise that after the WW2 Polilsh borders were moved to the west. (because Russia posessed us and Germany lost the War). That means a lot of poles stayed in Soviet Union and a lot of Germans stucked here. Fortunatelly we (as a Poland) are a victim here so noone can blame us, but now it can cause some troubles. Germans as a people wants the land and bulidings back... Poland can forget about getting the eastern lands or rights to the properties... so natural way is that we are looking to keep the western goods.

Good or bad, that's the history of that part of earth ;)

Offline Cerceuilvolant

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« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2004, 03:41:29 AM »
Fact is that article is made à la good ol' XIXth century fashion, manipulating history. The guy may have read books but doesn't really know history.

He's showing France as zee evil country that allied with the Ottomans against the Habsburg, showing that zee evil frenchmen have been on zee evil muslims side... :rofl

I don't see the problem, as long as it was in the interest of France that was threatened on every side (From Belgium to Switzeland and along the spanish border) by an hegemonic power. We provoked the fall of the Habsburgs/spanish supremacy in Europe, opening the way to the franco-english dmoniation of Europe, good! As far as I know, the fair & courageous Britons allied with the Ottomans back in 1798 against France...

He implies that the US have the monopoly of the support of the polish independance... heh... As far as I know (and the polish players might know it - I'm half polish as well), France has been the constant supporter of the polish independance, from Lezynska to the restaured Poland under Napoleon, the hosting of the polish patriots and troops in France during the XIXth century, WW1 and WW2.

The 1919-20 war was certainly made in a nationalistic optic on the polish side (to gain the eastern territories), but the french were the main supporter of this attack against USSR:by supplying massively Poland with weapons and giving them military advisors, such as Weygand or de Gaulle. But I'm afraid that it didn't fit in the author's idea of zee evil islamo-commies frenchmen :D

And finally, as a french-pole myself, I got to regret that Poland is a victim of WW2, yes. I unfortunately lost a whole part of my family during WW2. But Poland didn't really make much to avoid it by;
-signing the non-agression pact with Germany in 1934 and tending on an alliance with it against USSR
-refusing that soviet troops pass on its territory to go help Czechoslovakia in 1938 under the franco-british request. War would have been declared in 1938 if the western Allies were sure that USSR would have joined them. Stalin offered his assistance, his only condition was to be able to transit troops via Poland & Romania. The same scenario happened in 1938-39 during the franco-anglo-soviet negociations for an alliance against Germany.

Each nation has its national interest. Democracies share common values. Iraq and its anemic army was not a threat, just a note on an agenda.
Poland hopped in for its national interest, and that's natural, it's relying on the US for its national security against Russia. France & Germany don't.

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2004, 03:45:47 AM »
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Where were Britian and France when Poland needed them in 1939.


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