Author Topic: Defensive moves for less E situations?  (Read 2022 times)

Offline Murdr

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Defensive moves for less E situations?
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2004, 12:00:48 AM »
Didnt see the most common low-E situation mentioned in detail so...
Often the MA is so busy, it is wise to just get out of the way of the closest threat, rather than getting tied up trying to fight the closest threat.
If someone is diving on your 6 and they are clearly way faster than you, wait until just before they are in gun range, and reverse under within 45 degrees of vertical.  
Watch their reaction while you're doing this.  If they try to follow your turn, they will only turn a big arc around you and overshoot, or compress and end up much lower.  If they start to follow for a shot then brake, you are at least faster than when you started, and going opposite directions. If they pull up, then you dont even have to complete your reversal, and can start planning the next step to surviving.

One key point to remember about a bogie on your 6 is that unequal E states=managable,  equal E states=very bad.  In this situation if they are much faster there is only a brief window for a shot at you.  
Where Wildthing is describing a series of flat turns, he is not only evading, but he is also keeping speeds unequal, closing the window, and positioning to have a shot on them as they blow by.  Very efficent.
Where in some situations I suggest allowing them to dive, and just keep flying along till the last second, you would be unequalizing speeds as long as possible, then pulling a speed gaining manover at the last second. Also very efficent.

The strategy in defending in a situation like this is to farm out the E difference to your advantage, either by seeking an overshoot, or evading enough times that the E difference becomes small enough for you to go on the offensive.

Offline Stegahorse

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First of All
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2004, 12:08:28 AM »
Don't let yourself get low(under 5k) AND Slow (under 300IAS).
That Is step 1. If you want to furball, get a Spit,Yak, N1K2.
Mustangs, B or D are not the best at anything, but they do everything well.
Your SA should be keyed to that. Always leave yourself an exit.
If you have , you can always dive out and get altitude again.
About the only thing you should try to dogfight in a 51, low and slow, is another 51.
I thought I was important until I got Cancer and had to go to a cancer clinic.

Offline WldThing

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Re: First of All
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2004, 12:13:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stegahorse
About the only thing you should try to dogfight in a 51, low and slow, is another 51.


Should add,  P47's, P38's, F4U's, Tiffies,  Most LW Rides, La7, La5...  Those are the ones i can think of right now..
P51 is capable to put up quite a stall fight if flown properly.

Offline lasersailor184

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Defensive moves for less E situations?
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2004, 09:00:45 AM »
I'm doing really well in dogfights with the p51b.  ATM, i'm only getting beaten by spitfires and LA7's, as long as I don't make a stupid move.
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Offline TweetyBird

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Defensive moves for less E situations?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2004, 09:40:19 AM »
>>as soon as i see him shoot bullets i will climb up into an angle and barrel roll on top of him<<

Can you put this in distance, because a lot of folks don't use tracers. I'm guessing 600-700 yards at 280?

Offline sonofagun

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Defensive moves for less E situations?
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2004, 10:58:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'm only getting shot down at the end of the fight now.


Most of the time, me too.
 
I usually wait till the end of the fight to shoot down the other guy too.

That's the best time to do it.

;)

Offline WldThing

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Defensive moves for less E situations?
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2004, 11:25:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>as soon as i see him shoot bullets i will climb up into an angle and barrel roll on top of him<<

Can you put this in distance, because a lot of folks don't use tracers. I'm guessing 600-700 yards at 280?


400-500 yards usually..

Offline lasersailor184

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Defensive moves for less E situations?
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2004, 09:56:33 PM »
Ooh, I like getting in under 200 yards and then hitting them.  But my guns are set at 300 because I can't have my way all the time.


But anyway, thanks Roscoroo for the merges lesson.  It really helped.


Hehe, and that time you strafed the runway, you had no less then 7 people on you (not including me).  You turned and I lossed you.  I rolled to see where you were and I drop about 50 yards behind you.
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Offline TweetyBird

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Defensive moves for less E situations?
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2004, 12:05:31 AM »
So if I'm seeing 4-500 yards he's seeing 2-300 yards at 280? Isn't that a little close? I mean if I understand right, i.e., this is the ponit you start the move. I looked at the film you posted, and I think that is the move you're talking about. Going from that,  it seems at 4-500 you are starting the second part ( i.e., his flight path almost perpindicular to yours in the 6 view and you are starting the roll back into his plane so you're about level  on his 6 as he passes you for about 300 yard snap shot).
Then again, in all likelyhood I'm totaly confused :)

Offline Roscoroo

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Defensive moves for less E situations?
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2004, 01:43:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Ooh, I like getting in under 200 yards and then hitting them.  But my guns are set at 300 because I can't have my way all the time.


But anyway, thanks Roscoroo for the merges lesson.  It really helped.


Hehe, and that time you strafed the runway, you had no less then 7 people on you (not including me).  You turned and I lossed you.  I rolled to see where you were and I drop about 50 yards behind you.


your welcome . If you want to do some more work just give me a yell . You picked up what i taught you very fast .

P,s on that run i egged the vh . zoomed out killed a la 7  grabbed alt (saw the target rich enviroment )came back down the runway killed 3 more .  then turned and burned for one more pass  i got two more  for a total of 6 kills and was in so deep it was just a matter of time befor someone ran me down and killed me :rofl   it just happened to be you

Pss, you may want to set your convergenge out alittle more with 50cals ... just take note at the distance you fire at the most and try setting accordenly   mine all vary in each type of plane as for gun type and what i use that peticular plane for .
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Offline lasersailor184

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Defensive moves for less E situations?
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2004, 08:35:22 AM »
Lol, I fire mostly at 150 yards.  But I need to stretch my convergence out just incase.

Quote
was in so deep it was just a matter of time befor someone ran me down and killed me  it just happened to be you


I came back to a32 hoping to find some more people.  I saw no less then 12 people on a single Knight.  So I dove in and fired at the group.  ONe quick burst hit about 5 people I think.  Was fun dogfighting in a 1 v 25 situation.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2004, 08:40:08 AM by lasersailor184 »
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Offline Roscoroo

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Defensive moves for less E situations?
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2004, 03:02:33 PM »
lasersailor  as you get more comfortable with the p51b pay attention to what types of planes shoot you down the most .
LA7's , spits ,and niki's i bet .

your gonna want to fly these planes for a tour and get the feel for what they can actually do . as time goes on this will help you alot . you will start automatically guessing/knowing what those planes are going to do and compensate for it.

if i was in a dogfight with those three planes there id ussually go after the niki 1st  wiggle and dodge the la7's attempts and kill the spit 2nd .  this also depends on what type of spit it is also. a 5 or a 9  because they are almost two different planes .

things might change as to there alts also .

be shure you film your dogfights also and then watch what they did and your mistakes  
Roscoroo ,
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Offline lasersailor184

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Defensive moves for less E situations?
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2004, 04:21:50 PM »
Lol, I've killed a lot of Spits, 190's and P51D's lol.

For some wierd reason, I like going after the p51d.  Show them who's the real boss.


But anyway, I pretty much know what I messed up right away.



Lastly, I've seen a few planes yaw left and right really quickly when i'm on their tail.  What is this?
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"