Author Topic: Nice work, Mr Bush  (Read 6356 times)

Offline lord dolf vader

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Nice work, Mr Bush
« Reply #150 on: January 20, 2004, 11:54:53 AM »
lovely how you explain away locking men in dogcages without even a summary military trial. and children imprisoned without same.

how ever you justify it no trial at all is just ****ed up.

Offline Toad

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Nice work, Mr Bush
« Reply #151 on: January 20, 2004, 12:05:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
I'm not saying this is right or wrong.


Did this confuse you again?

Sorry.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Nice work, Mr Bush
« Reply #152 on: January 20, 2004, 12:07:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
I don't know Grun.....

Think about what a bunch of level-headed, open-minded, friendly, tolerant, reasonable people the Taliban were.

You know... blowing up 1000 year old Buddha's, killing women at the soccer stadium for adultery, no education for women, no women in professional occupations. Pretty normal bunch of folks; just like everyone else.

Maybe we should turn 'em all out. They'd probably just join Red Crescent and do humantiarian stuff back home.

;)


Like I said, they are all innocent.... :)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #153 on: January 20, 2004, 12:09:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
lovely how you explain away locking men in dogcages without even a summary military trial. and children imprisoned without same.

how ever you justify it no trial at all is just ****ed up.


If you and yours expressed just half as much outrage at the 911 terrorists and their buddies as you do towards the USA......  :rolleyes:

Offline MJHerman

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Nice work, Mr Bush
« Reply #154 on: January 20, 2004, 12:18:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Like I said, they are all innocent.... :)


Actually, you seem to think they are all guilty.

My apologies if you read my posts as suggesting that providing basic legal protections to accused terrorists as is the same, or should be done at the same level, as "common criminals".  

For example, I don't believe that these people should have a bail hearing or be released pending their "trial" on a promise that they might show up (they won't).  But I do believe that they should have:

(a) A right to a lawyer or other legal advisor.
(b) A right to be advised of what they are charged with.
(c) A right to a speedy trial.

I don't believe that (c) needs to be done in front of the traditional civilian judge and jury system.  A military tribunal is fine with me so long as the process is transparent, subject to public and judicial scrutiny.

Bear in mind, even those accused of the most heinous crimes of this century had their day in court at Nuremberg.  It is not important that justice be done but rather that justice be seen to be done.

Look...it's your country and your judicial system and you and your government can choose to run your affairs as you please.  But my own personal opinion is that it is hard enough to convince others of the benefit of freedom and democracy when you can't even practice it in your own backyard.

Offline kappa

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Nice work, Mr Bush
« Reply #155 on: January 20, 2004, 12:24:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MJHerman
Actually, you seem to think they are all guilty.

My apologies if you read my posts as suggesting that providing basic legal protections to accused terrorists as is the same, or should be done at the same level, as "common criminals".  

For example, I don't believe that these people should have a bail hearing or be released pending their "trial" on a promise that they might show up (they won't).  But I do believe that they should have:

(a) A right to a lawyer or other legal advisor.
(b) A right to be advised of what they are charged with.
(c) A right to a speedy trial.

I don't believe that (c) needs to be done in front of the traditional civilian judge and jury system.  A military tribunal is fine with me so long as the process is transparent, subject to public and judicial scrutiny.

Bear in mind, even those accused of the most heinous crimes of this century had their day in court at Nuremberg.  It is not important that justice be done but rather that justice be seen to be done.

Look...it's your country and your judicial system and you and your government can choose to run your affairs as you please.  But my own personal opinion is that it is hard enough to convince others of the benefit of freedom and democracy when you can't even practice it in your own backyard.


Best post here yet... But, sorry to say, all it will bring up are chimes they are all innocent, its americas fault, and we should release them all on bond... Or perhaps, of course they are guilty cause my pres said they are.. Or maybe, they are guilty because they are arab.. or maybe they are guilty because i just feel it.. so clearly no real proof is needed..
- TWBYDHAS

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Nice work, Mr Bush
« Reply #156 on: January 20, 2004, 12:49:37 PM »
Nice post.  They will get their military trials... :) In the meantime the innocent ones are being set free.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #157 on: January 20, 2004, 12:51:23 PM »
"Or maybe, they are guilty because they are arab.."

You are the only one who keeps bringinig that up, why is that?

I have said countless times that its obvious the USa is not targeting all arabs or muslims.  You sweem to fantasize about that possibility, is it because of your hatred for religion?

Offline Yeager

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Nice work, Mr Bush
« Reply #158 on: January 20, 2004, 01:14:57 PM »
Or perhaps, of course they are guilty cause my pres said they are.. Or maybe, they are guilty because they are arab.. or maybe they are guilty because i just feel it.. so clearly no real proof is needed..
====
Why dont you hop on a plane and head down to the Git and straighten things out?  Seems nobody else has a clue when your in town.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #159 on: January 20, 2004, 01:27:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MJHerman
Bear in mind, even those accused of the most heinous crimes of this century had their day in court at Nuremberg.

 


That's true.

At the end of a "traditional war", after the shooting was over, after the needs of interrogation had been met and the Germans had signed and unconditional surrender, these folks "got their day in court."

Quote
April 13, 1949
 
Military Tribunal IV-A sentences nineteen defendants found guilty in the Ministries Trial, a trial involving three Reich Ministers and eighteen other members of the Nazi party hierarchry accused of war crims and crimes against humanity.


Although appeals continue in this case until January of 1951, sentencing in the Ministries Trial brings an end to the four-year-long series of Nuremberg trials.



Took a while, it seems.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Ping

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Nice work, Mr Bush
« Reply #160 on: January 20, 2004, 01:31:51 PM »
MJHerman made a point that I may not have made.
I also dont believe they should be set free before trial, nor do I think it should be a regular court either.
I/JG2 Enemy Coast Ahead


Offline straffo

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Nice work, Mr Bush
« Reply #161 on: January 20, 2004, 01:32:23 PM »
Didn't the Nuremberg trial start in november 1945 ?

1945 not 46

Offline Ping

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« Reply #162 on: January 20, 2004, 01:33:52 PM »
601 left to go :)
I/JG2 Enemy Coast Ahead


Offline Ping

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Nice work, Mr Bush
« Reply #163 on: January 20, 2004, 01:52:16 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/01/20/britain.guantanamo/index.html
__________________________
"Nine Britons and six Frenchmen are among the 660 people who have been held at the U.S. naval base on Cuba for more than two years without being charged or having access to legal assistance."
__________________________

 The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear two legal appeals over whether the detainees are being held unlawfully. It would be the first time the justices review the constitutionality of the White House's war on terror laws that followed the September 11 attacks.
__________________________
I/JG2 Enemy Coast Ahead


Offline kappa

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Nice work, Mr Bush
« Reply #164 on: January 20, 2004, 01:57:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
Or perhaps, of course they are guilty cause my pres said they are.. Or maybe, they are guilty because they are arab.. or maybe they are guilty because i just feel it.. so clearly no real proof is needed..
====
Why dont you hop on a plane and head down to the Git and straighten things out?  Seems nobody else has a clue when your in town.


Obviously this includes you... What point are you trying to make?

My point was after someone post something substantial all they get in return is cynicism..
- TWBYDHAS