Canadian communism - Loni must die.

[miko2d]

http://www.theultimategiftforloni.com/



 Loni is a young woman of 19 urgently in need of a kidney transplant. The waiting list for cadaver organs is too long.
 Loni's website has resulted in over sixty (60) altruistic
individuals who have prayerfully and lovingly offered to donate the "Ultimate Gift".

 The problem is that in Canada only the spouse or another family member could successfully donate organs. The government defends this rationing policy by arguing that donors face health and psychological problems and the uncertainty regarding the motivations of organ donors/sellers would place an ethical burden on the standards of health professionals.

However, in the past ten years, due to the continuing shortage of organs caused by the state's rationing policy, it became possible for close friends to donate organs. But even then, local government boards of health evaluate the friend to determine if he or she meets the definition of a close friend out of a misplaced fear that this situation could generate discrimination or abuses. It's believed that certain people could be motivated to give because they're touched by the age of the patient, his or her place in society or even physical attractiveness or other "unearned" benefits.

 Supposedly, the live donor offer has to be anonymous to an anonymous recipient - directed by state official.

 God, err.. Marx forbid that a stranger decides whether Loni should live or die based on her cuteness or other factors, rather than some government bureaucrat. People may think theymown their bodies or their lives...

 miko

[Ping]

Warning! This is a Ripsnort Special of Cut'n'Paste.
_____________________________ _
 Loni has a donor! Yes, after what seemed like impossible odds, Loni's Uncle Paul has been positively cross-matched with her! There are still a few tests to do, but the main part is finished. We are all very excited, and so grateful to God for making a way for her uncle to become eligible, for his tender and generous heart, and for his beautiful and supportive family.
_____________________________ _

Miko, are you starting on a new crusade? Rallying the troops to criticize broken Health Care systems in other Countries?
 Have at it then. Yes its screwed, as is the one in your country IMO.
 At least In this country we have the option of getting in to the hospital and recieving emergency care without worrying about the effects of patch'n'push out the door after we are stabalized.
As the cut'n'paste shows, she is not being condemed to die, she has a donor.

[gofaster]

I saw a movie once where the organs from a convicted killer were transplanted into different people.  The organ recipients eventually became lunatic killers, too.  We must not let that happen to Canadians.   Stop the madness!  Stop the insanity!  Think of the children!

[vorticon]

odd...usually people like that take a quick border jump pay excessive amounts on a american kidney and come back...

[miko2d]

Ping: Miko, are you starting on a new crusade? Rallying the troops to criticize broken Health Care systems in other Countries?

 I was accused of only attacking socialism in US.

Have at it then. Yes its screwed, as is the one in your country IMO.

 Most canadians I've talked to who like their healthcare system happened to be healthy people.

At least In this country we have the option of getting in to the hospital and recieving emergency care without worrying about the effects of patch'n'push out the door after we are stabilized.

 If you are implying that we face the abovementioned situation in US, that's a load of BS.
 We take out an insurance card or a credit card out of our wallet and pay for our healthcare. A miniscule number of people who have neither means nor insurance can rely on other sources.
 And we are not condemned to die because getting a cure from a stranger woudl offend some government busybody's egalitarian sensisbilities.

As the cut'n'paste shows, she is not being condemed to die, she has a donor.

 She has not the best donor possible with the healthiest and most suitable kidney - and not the donor who can best afford to lose a kidney, but the only donor that the state allowed her to have.

 She will likely get an inferior kindney and end up on a waiting list a few years down the line while her unkle may suffer and die prematurely for the loss of kidney he may be ill equipped to afford.

 And it solves nothing for the few thousand canadian people who are waiting for transplant and are too poor (after paying exorbitant taxes for a health care system denied to them) to come to US for an operation, like thousands of canadians do every year.

 And of course you are getting all the drugs developed by US companies just for the cost of manufacture while we - americans - foot a huge bill for their research and development.

 miko

[Frogm4n]

how is this communism? sounds more like bad policys.

[miko2d]

Frogm4n: how is this communism? sounds more like bad policys.

 Depends what you mean by "bad".
 It's a communist policy - a good communist policy. The idea that people do not own their bodies and that government that is supposedely acting in their interests is entitled to make decisions for them is pure communism. And since free people would not tolarate communism, anything that makes them less free and more miserable and more dependant on the state is a good communist policy.

 Being a good communist policy, it is bad policy in view of many of us still clinging to the conservative western values of liberty.

 miko

[Frogm4n]

sorry im confuseing socialism with communism again. you know the lets help out everyone vs communist stuff.

[miko2d]

Frogm4n: sorry im confuseing socialism with communism again. you know the lets help out everyone vs communist stuff.

 Socialism is a more general category of a social arrangement where government controls property and bodies of its subjects.

 Communism is just a kind of socialism where the government exercises direct ownership of means of production while under  fascism ther is nominal private ownership but the state exercises control through regulations.

 Since in this case the state directly owns the means of madical production (operating rooms) and presumes to own the bodies of the people on its geographical territory, it seems more of a communism to me.
 The law preventing strangers donating organs is basically a communist law.
 The law preventing sale of organs for money in effect sets/regulates a zero price, so it is more fascist kind of socialism than a communist one.

 miko

[vorticon]

glad to know you have absalutly no ethical standards there miko...just because a law is "communist" doesnt mean its wrong

[miko2d]

vorticon: glad to know you have absalutly no ethical standards there miko...just because a law is "communist" doesnt mean its wrong

 I can see why someone would believe that my ethical standards differ from his, but to make a claim that I have none? Does that mean you only believe that your set of ethical standards is valid and everybody else's is false and thus non-existent?


 My ethical standards are very simple. Agression/coercion is wrong and evil. The only acceptable agression/coersion is the one directed to defend/prevent an unprovoked aggression/coercion.

 Communism implies violent coercion/agression against people who do not agress against others.
 If Loni, the willing donor and a surgeon performed the transplant in Canada, they would have not violated anybody's person or property, would not have agressed against anybody.

 Nevertheless, they would have been hidnapped/arrested by government thugs and thrown to jail or hurt or killed if they tried to resist.
  The same is true with any socialist law. It is based on unprovoked aggression and illegitimate coercion.
 Such law is illegitimate. In your opinion, an illegitimate and invasive/coercive law may be right while in my ethichs it is evil and wrong.

 You ethics seems to be based on an arbitrary decision of some government bureaucrat or at best a majority on what is right and what is wrong, while my ethics id set in stone and does not depend on any one's opinion in determining what is right and what is wrong.

 I'd say that it is you who do not have an ethical system while I do have one.

 miko

[Boroda]

Miko, is it worse then what goes on in Moldavia now?...

A person gets persuaded that he has a rare blood group, and is offered $1000 to go to Turkey and donate blood to some rich citizen. He gets to the hospital, and during the "health test" he gets his kidney cut away, recieves his $1000 and is kicked back to Moldavia...

I bet he signed all possible papers in Turkish kindly agreeing to "donate" his kidney to the respected and noble Turkish citizen.

You still remember Soviet times, believing that nothing can be worse then what we had here. You simply lack the understanding of what "uncivilised" gangster "capitalism" is.

Remember Marx sayng that for 300% profit a capitalist will sell his own mother? If there will be an opportunity to perform combinations like I mentioned above - there will immediately appear a group of people making money on stealing human organs.

[miko2d]

Boroda: Miko, is it worse then what goes on in Moldavia now?...
 I bet he signed all possible papers in Turkish kindly agreeing to "donate" his kidney to the respected and noble Turkish citizen.

You still remember Soviet times, believing that nothing can be worse then what we had here. You simply lack the understanding of what "uncivilised" gangster "capitalism" is.

 What's your point? You seem to be proving my claims while you sound like you oppose them.
 The probems you cite are examples of lack of capitalism and too much state intervenion in economy.
 If there was a free market for donor organs, there would not be as much illegal activity surrounding it. Like in any other product.

Remember Marx sayng that for 300% profit a capitalist will sell his own mother?

 Marx forgot to matnion that the same soundrell who would sell his mother under capitalism would sell other people's mothers under socialism even more eagerly.

 miko

[Frogm4n]

100 percent capitalism bad, 100 percent socialism bad. 50/50 well i guess we can kinda live with it.

[miko2d]

100% capitalism is good. It means no coersion whatsoever - only free choice of people commiting voluntary transactions. Except for ordinary crime, of course - which is present in any society.

 Any ratio of capitalism/socialism is not stable. Socialism must necessarily expand or be actively reduced.

 miko