Getting behind an enemy

[ZuluWolf]

i wanted to know a tactic to get behind enemies, from low altitude without having to go all they way around them, and wasting time...giving them enuff to shake u off..

[humble]

Hmmm,,,

While your going around the other guy...he's going around you...them little circles you get caught up in creates something occasionally called a "dog fight"...or "knife fight"...or...well anyway unless the other guy is asleep at the switch he's going to react to what you do. So...you need to learn ACM...otherwise known as the "geometry cheat".

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by humble
... ACM...otherwise known as the "geometry cheat".

Classic



ack-ack

[Soulyss]

This sounds like really too broad a question to be handled here, or in any solely text based means.  You can start by looking at websites like

NetAces

or do a search on google for ACM or (Air Combat Manuvers).  Knowing what a hi yo-yo or rolling scissors is won't do you a lot of good unless you try to understand HOW and WHY they work.  
But this can give you a little groundwork to build on. After that the best way to get better is try and get some 1v1 lessons from a member of the training staff.  Ask around the Training Arena for one and you should be able to track one down soon enough if one of them doesn't pop his head in here.  I'd give you some names but I'm honestly not sure who's doing training currently.  Basically the only way you're going to learn is to do, put the time in with someone who can give you immediate feedback.   Time is the key most people in here are about as good as their experience level.

[Cobra412]

If your really interested in learning ACM you should also look into some books out there.  I've found alot of stuff online and they are of great help but the best I've found so far was in a book.  

It's by Robert L. Shaw, "Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering".  If you play more than just WWII flight sims it will help you out there too.  Opposed to some of online stuff you can find that are in great detail this book does it for everything.

It's not a typical WWII history or Modern ACM type book.  It actually follows more of a classroom reading than basic details here and there.  Everytime I pick it up I'll be picturing what they are talking about and what engagements I've had and what went right and wrong.  

I do wanna stress though that it is text book maneuvers and you dont' always see that in the arenas.  So you still have to figure out if the person your engaging is lacking in the ACM department or if they really know what they are doing.  It covers alot in all aspects of ACM not just on the offensive and defensive,but wingmen tactics too.  It has detailed visual breakdowns of each engagement, both in the horizontal plane and the vertical plane.  It's well worth the price if your into flight sims.  I'm sure others who have it would agree.

[gofaster]

Don't overwhelm the new guy yet.

Read the netaces.org website and get some practice.  And remember, the quickest way to get behind someone without going around them is to go through them.  The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.  And make sure you're flying a Hurricane IIc, Typhoon, or FW190A8 with four 20mm cannon when you do that.

[Adogg]

...for the morons like me who'll take a shot at the HO just in case you're a worse pilot than me )

[Soulyss]

To add to what Cobra was saying towards the end, Shaw's Book is good if you have some of the ground work laid in the how's and why's of air combat.  It is a very dry, technical book (though it does have a lot of niffty quotes )  I picked it up fairly early in my AH career and I must say the first time through it didn't really help me that much (at least at least from what I could decern).  It was very hard for me to translate what I was reading into the MA.  Only after I had some experience under my belt that I would go back and re-read some of it and say to myself "oh yeah that's what he was talking about".  Unless you're planning on sticking with this game for the long haul like I was the ~$30 investment may not be worth it.  

I think someone new to AH and flight sims in general would be best served by looking at some of the free material available online and getting in touch with someone who can show them the ropes.  Keep in mind that the learning curve on this stuff is pretty steep.  So don't expect too much overnight but stick with it and you'll see improvement.  I've been flying a few years now and there are PLENTY of people online that put me in my place night in and night out, but the good news is I'm still learning and that's what keeps the game fun and interesting.

[Cobra412]

Your absolutely correct Soulyss.  If your absolutely new to the whole aerial combat then you should check out the free stuff first.  Cause you may or may not wanna go so deep into the learning curve or even stay playing the game.

I have a tendency to think most folks interested in flight sims have some background knowledge when it comes to ACM.  I only have it cause I work in the military on fighters with my primary job being a flight controls specialist.  I've only been flying for about 7 months now and I might be considered as mediocre when it comes to flying and tactics.