I would add AT guns to all bases.

[LJK Raubvogel]

It would be kind of tough to take out a field, if the AT gun kills you in 20-30 seconds like you say. Unless you're a crack shot, it takes longer than 30 seconds to get the range on something as small as a gun emplacement. There are already AT guns at the fields. They're called Panzers.

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[Hans]

There are only panzers at a field if players decide to spawn them.

There needs to be an effective anti-tank defense for a base.

An Ostwind is strictly an anti-aircraft vehicle.  Is it?  NO!  Its also capable of being used as a base attack vehicle that is SUPERIOR to a panzer.  This strikes me as being bass ackwards.  This is an obvious bug.  These Ostwinds are not intended for this use, but they are.  Its wrong.

So, add some AT guns to take you out before you can get close enough, but also add the M7 Priest or the German Hummel self propelled howitzers to take out the AT gun bunkers.

So, you can still take out a base with just two ground vehicles.  An artillery unit, then a troop delivery half-track.

Tanks are for killing other ground vehicles, and AA units are for killing airplanes.....and that should be their only use.

Hans.

[This message has been edited by Hans (edited 11-07-2000).]

[Fishu]

Hummel and 155mm shells  
even Wespe would be fine by me..
hmm, I think that one falls to same caterogy with M7.. and more likely it would be M7 because yanks dont have other than halftracks..

I'd like to have that one SdKfz 251 artilery spotting vehicle (of course I don't remember those sub versions)
that would be neat with upcoming artillery pieces  


One thing that you forgot, Hans...
If you dive bomb a field, you have plenty of speed to run from anyone who decides to intercept you, or plenty of time to do couple bomb runs with a buff.
but in tanks, you have very limited speed and you can't hit targets too accurately from long ranges, where from anyone can dust you out.
I could hit moving tank beyond 3k easily.. big bug in here too, for 75L48 cannon, now make that target stable and trying to kill AT-guns..
plus that defender would have zillion tanks if VH still stays up and right in range to shoot the enemy attacker.
You do have zillion planes too when hangars are up, but it takes you few minutes to climb, while in tank you can just begin shooting as soon as you get out of VH.

AT-guns would be great, but it would make vehicles quite much next to useless if you're being suppressed..

If Ostwind gets fixed against buildings, then it will make things even harder because tanks 75mm seems to be fairly ineffective compared to air or ostwind assault.
It takes over a minute to kill hangar and 1/4 of your ammunition (if full HE load)

Well.. it would obviously need some more tweaking with these things
Maybe we'll find answer from the artillery when those appears.

[UncleBuck]

Again to stop the ostwind from destroying buildings just put a limit on the degree it can depress its guns.  It would only take a few degrees say 10 to make it useless as an anti-tank or hardned target weapon.  It would still be able to shoot AC easily.  then if you really want to rape a field team up with a tank or two and provide  AA cover for them as intended.

                   UNCLEBUCK

[HABICHT]

why not install 2-4 (depends on bases size)
88mm anti tank guns?
manable of course, not AI controlled.

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Habicht
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
   
 

"Die Ta 152 war meine Überlebensversicherung in den letzten Tagen des Krieges" OFw Willi Reschke, Ritterkreuzträger, 38 Abschüsse

[This message has been edited by HABICHT (edited 11-07-2000).]

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by UncleBuck:
Again to stop the ostwind from destroying buildings just put a limit on the degree it can depress its guns.  It would only take a few degrees say 10 to make it useless as an anti-tank or hardned target weapon.  It would still be able to shoot AC easily.  then if you really want to rape a field team up with a tank or two and provide  AA cover for them as intended.

                   UNCLEBUCK

and add extra weight on the spitfires so they wouldn't turn like zekes....

come on, wake up, that would be against ostwinds specifications  
just fix the damage model for buildings..

[sling322]

So then what stops an aircraft from attacking an Ostwind below the 10 degree angle Buck?  Hmmm?  It seems to me that no matter what you do someone, somewhere isnt going to like it.  You change something one way to stop a certain vehicle from doing something and then someone else will come up with a way to take advantage of it.  Its a never ending cycle.  

[UncleBuck]

Well the area that you would be trying to get under with a depression limit would be very hard to exploit.  As you come in you would be hard pressed to stay out of the guns arc.  this also causes the driver to be smart and use terrain to your advantage, Hull down or what not to make the deficiency of the vehicle less apparent.  I agree someone will complain about everything but this fixes a problem.  I wonder if the Positioned actually had a gun that could be depressed that far.  the Soviet ZSU is a descendent of the Osti and it is limited to a 27 degree angle of depression.  The main problem is that the person taking advantage of the  firing arc of the OSTI is doing exactly the same thing as they do to attack a bomber, stay out of the guns.  the Osti on the other hand is destroying fortifications it was never intended to attack.

                 UncleBuck

[Fishu]

Ostwind has can point its gun at the ground few yards in front of it..
Another thing why its turret was open, was gun traverse...  closed turret would limit it.
that gun could point 85 degrees upwards too  

[LJK Raubvogel]

The Ostwind was able to depress its gun enough for ground attack. And how is the ZSU related to the Ostwind....other than the fact that they both have guns and shoot at aircraft?

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:
Hummel and 155mm shells  
even Wespe would be fine by me..
hmm, I think that one falls to same caterogy with M7.. and more likely it would be M7 because yanks dont have other than halftracks..

I'd like to have that one SdKfz 251 artilery spotting vehicle (of course I don't remember those sub versions)
that would be neat with upcoming artillery pieces  

 Hummel mounted the 150mm gun not a 155mm   (the FH length, most of the other SP-Art 150mm carries, usually Stugs, had the SiG short barrel version)

You get your Hummel, I get my M-12 GMC and it's 155mm FH.

Stuh 42's would be a little better then the Wespe...better armor and a better gun (in most areas anyway). The US M-37 (an M5 light tank chassis combined with the M2 105mm) is about in the same category, it's quite a bit faster then M7, frontal armor is about half (but in AH it would probably be worth the speed since the M7 hasn't got much of a chance against taking damage.

I think the FO HT your thinking about is the SPW 250 Beob, they also made a wheeled version, the SPW 253. US had some interesting jeep a Dodge WC's (what would become the Powerwagon) modifications that had an armored hood for FO work.

[Fishu]

Doh.. always keep messing up 155mm and 150mm  
Guess I should restudy those vehicles a bit after while..

Theres also 251 version for it, somewhere...
I tried to find one page where I saw very good list of 250/251 versions, but blah.. didn't find it.
hmm.. wheeled version could be neat, should be faster than tracked one, right?

[Vila]

Actually, Ground defense "Otto" makes perfect sense.  If planes can't attack a field without dealing with Otto, why should ground vehicles?  It would also limit the Flak vulching.

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Vila <Flying Pigs>
Oink! Oink! To War!

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by Hans:
I wouldn't mind seeing some 75mm anti-tank guns in bunkers at each base.  Naturally, we all know what these would do.  Stop the AA Ostwind from being used as a base killer.

But now that would make ground assaults impossible.

I disagree here.  Now that we're back to the old terrain with the spawn points far enough away from the fields to make the Osty driver have to work for his kills, I dont think theres any reason for AT guns at bases.  

With the exception of field 27? (field SW of 1) it takes an Osty 15-20 minutes to drive within range of a field.  Thats about how long it takes to fly a fully loaded Chog there.  

AT guns would be cool and so would the Priest but I think things have calmed down on the VH front.

-Ding

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by Vila:
Actually, Ground defense "Otto" makes perfect sense.  If planes can't attack a field without dealing with Otto, why should ground vehicles?  It would also limit the Flak vulching.

Put one of those 40mm ack at each field and we'll see how long those Ostys last  

-Ding