Author Topic: Mig25 mach 3 capable? (Read 11071 times)

Spooky · « **Reply #75 on:** February 01, 2004, 01:13:22 PM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
The only success the US can claim is in the Middle East where the Israelis successfully fought off the Arab attacks in numerous wars.

using French Mirages !

Tango romeo oscar lima lima

Toad · « **Reply #76 on:** February 01, 2004, 05:23:54 PM »

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The F-15 Eagle has a perfect combat record of 101 victories and zero defeats.

What else is there to say?

NUKE · « **Reply #77 on:** February 01, 2004, 05:52:52 PM »

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Originally posted by Toad
What else is there to say?

actually the number is higher now..... more like 108 I think.

Toad you are correct. From my understanding, the F-15 was conceived after the F-4 was left wanting in Vietnam.

The idea was to build an air superiority fighter. It was not built to counter any perceived threat by the Mig-25.

By the way, the Mig-25 was the plane that was a waste of money. There was no US high-speed bomber that ever materialized for the Mig-25 to intercept. By the time the XB-70 and it's mach 3+ escort fighter were being tested, the US realised that ICBM's were the way to deliver nukes, not high speed bombers. That is why we didn't build these planes.

So the Soviets actually wasted their money biulding Mig-25's well after the threat they were supposed to counter was even a possibiltiy. The Mig-25 would not have been fast enough to intercept the B-70 anyway, so it was a failure at it's mission from the begining.

The F-15 paid off big time as Toad says.....30 years of dominance.

What has the Mig-25 proven? That it can burn it's engines trying to go Mach 2.8 in a straight line? That tank could only pull about 4 g's. Sorry, I'll take an Sr-71 over that bucket of bolts.

So please tell us who wasted their money.

Capt. Pork · « **Reply #78 on:** February 02, 2004, 02:14:09 AM »

If it were possible to receive head in any modern fighter, I'd fully expect that event to take place in an SU-37 before any other plane--and not just from the skanks.

SunTracker · « **Reply #79 on:** February 02, 2004, 07:22:35 AM »

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The F-15 enjoyed 10 years of superiority. When the Su-27 became operational in 1984 the F-15 could only claim parity, if even that.

Horse exhaust! Name one conflict since 1984 where the U.S. or another country using the F-15 did not have air superiority.

Capt. Pork · « **Reply #80 on:** February 02, 2004, 08:22:35 AM »

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Originally posted by SunTracker
Horse exhaust! Name one conflict since 1984 where the U.S. or another country using the F-15 did not have air superiority.

I love it when people take these things personally.

SunTracker · « **Reply #81 on:** February 02, 2004, 08:32:22 AM »

I did not take that personally.

Angus · « **Reply #82 on:** February 02, 2004, 08:52:26 AM »

Hehe, spot on.
I was once talking to a US squadron leader (colonel) and F-15 pilot. He stated the F15 was the finest dogfighter in the world. Ok, I asked if he could stay with a Harrier. He said, well, uhh, no, but I would be able to disengage. He was asked by another person if he could do 1 vs 1 with a Flanker. He said, errrr....if the pilot had our training it would be very hard, however the Flanker pilots do less training than the US.......

SunTracker · « **Reply #83 on:** February 02, 2004, 08:58:20 AM »

I see this as a ploy for you to 'disengage' from the conversation after being asked to show some evidence that the F-15 was unable to maintain air superiority after 1984.

Thats cool though, you are able to save some dignity this way.

Angus · « **Reply #84 on:** February 02, 2004, 09:31:08 AM »

Hehe, spot on again Scholzie

Staga · « **Reply #85 on:** February 02, 2004, 09:32:07 AM »

Only way to measure a fighters against each others is to have a decent mock-fights between well equipped, motivated and trained pilots and so far I haven't found any such thing done between Su-27 and F-15.

Here's one with German MiG-29s and U.S F-16s

AKIron · « **Reply #86 on:** February 02, 2004, 09:37:07 AM »

As I've said before, the proof is in the pudding, and in this case the only measure of superiority that means anything is the end result. That being the actual kill statistics and the final victory of the US over the Soviet Union in every respect, not soley economic. No angst here.

Toad · « **Reply #87 on:** February 02, 2004, 10:06:06 AM »

Yes I've noticed that there are some that just can't stand that people discuss American planes or anything American in a favourable light. There is always a non-American who has to flame the thread by stating how inferior US planes are and how everything non-American sucks. It's almost like if they take personal offence if someone says anything good about American hardware, particularly if they ignore Russian and French hardware. Personally I find it quite amusing ... if perhaps a bit pathetic.

Toad · « **Reply #88 on:** February 02, 2004, 10:15:22 AM »

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or anything American

I think you got the point but maybe not.

Anyway, as Iron pointed out, if you take the long view, it's pretty clear who's system, doctrine, hardware, whatever, won.

Boroda · « **Reply #89 on:** February 02, 2004, 10:15:30 AM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
The F-15 enjoyed 10 years of superiority. When the Su-27 became operational in 1984 the F-15 could only claim parity, if even that.

At Moscow Aero-Space Show in 2003 I had a chance to compare F-15 on demonstration flights to Sukhoi and Mikoyan fighters. To say I was not impressed is not true. I was disappointed. I still wonder why did they decide to fly there - it was a pale imitation of what I saw from MiG-29 regular pilots 12 years ago.

F-15s were compared with Su-27s in test fights 10 years ago when one American regiment flew to Lipetsk and then a regiment from Lipetsk flew to the US. The results were absolutely disappointing for Americans. Su-27 having an F-15 on dead six reversed the situation in 30sec., while F-15 was unable to shake a Su from it's tail at all.

Hehe, Americans refused to take off from Russian airfield, saying it's too dirty for them! They were afraid of dust, dry grass and cigarette stubû

so that a Su-27 had to take off before them to sweep the runway with exaust for them

MiG-25 was a revolutionary aircraft. The design concept was almost exactly copied by Americans in F-15. /*I mean only concept, composition - not the design, such things are usually impossible*/ It still remains the fastest mass-production plane.

I don't believe that there were no F-15s ever lost in combat. Must be a standard American way of counting losses. At least 2 F-15s were shot down in air-to-air combat in 1982 by Syrian MiG-23MLs. I don't even want to speak about losses from SAMs - it's usually impossible to guess the correct AC model when it's shot by a SAM.