questions on the ubberclimbing rice rockets

[humble]

I was reading a link on an other thread and came across this and other comments...

Capt. De Haven, one of the Forty-Niner's "Hot" pilots made most of his 14 kills in the now obsolete P-40, but transferred to a P-33 and downed 4, He has the Silver Star, D.F.C. with 2 Clusters and A.M. with nine Clusters....


In the event that the enemy is seen starting the attack, it has been our policy to wait until he commits himself definitely as to direction and then turn into him. The Japanese pilot is generally not overeager for a head-on pass and a sudden turn into him will usually delay his attack long enough for us to get out of gun range and gain altitude using a high speed climb. It has been our experience in combat and against captured Jap enemy aircraft that with a slight distance advantage, a shallow high speed climb will pull us away from the TONY, OSCAR, or ZEKE.


This is in a P40...I'm always amazed at the vertical zoom of both the zeke and the nikki...doesn't seem to add up.

[GScholz]

"Vertical zoom" and "shallow climb" are two very different things.

[Squire]

He's talking about flying a P-38. There is no way a P-40 would have ever outdistanced a Ki-61 Tony or a A6M5 in a shallow climb.

As for the N1K2, I doubt it ever engaged P-40s in combat.

[ra]

It's tough to tell if he's talking about the p-40 or the P-38.   But the report was created late in the war so if he's talking about the P-40 it's probably a late-war variant.  Some models had Merlins and, presumably, better climb at high altitude.

ra

[Squire]

He could have been reffering to a P-40N I suppose, yes.

[Urchin]

Alright.. think of it this way.  You are in a spit 9, I am in a 190A8.  We are both on the deck.  Which plane climbs better?  The Spit.  Which plane will zoom better?  The Spit.  Same as a P-40 vs Zero.  

So now... if I want to climb and still get away from you, what do I do?  

Well, the 190's top speed on the deck is ~350 mph.  The Spits top speed on the deck is ~320.  So which plane climbs better at 330 mph?  Mine- yours can't climb that fast, you need to be flying level to get to 320, whereas I can go 330 and still stay in a very slight climb.

[humble]

He's talking about the "early war" P40's...1942 I'd guess maybe early 1943. I'm always amazed at how well the zeke climbs...nikki to me is a porked FM...both seem to climb...and to a lesser degree zoom/dive much better than anything I'd expect from what I read. Had a nikki doing 550 (on me) on the deck last night from a 10k dive....I was at 520...and he was still extending:).

I'll go get link to cross post here...good reading anyway...

[humble]

http://home.earthlink.net/~jimdoss/index.htm#toc

interesting stuff

direct link to above mentioned article

http://home.earthlink.net/~jimdoss/Capt_De_Haven.htm

[Squire]

I raised my eyebrow at the Ki-61 comment, vs the other models, it makes sense, especially a Ki-43 which is a good 30mph slower than a P-40E, or an A6M2. Against an A6M5 it would be dicey, not sure if you could really extend much vs that one.