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Author Topic: Cooper gets to live, discussion about the death pen.  (Read 3058 times)

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2004, 04:22:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Samiam
I personally favor the death penalty in certain cases.

But the argument that if we don't put the killer to death we leave open the opportunity for him to kill again is pretty absurd.

Has it ever been the case that a murderer convicted and sentenced to life in prison w/o parole in a non-death penalty state and who would have gotten the death penalty in another state, has subsequently been released from prison and killed again?

I suppose there's the people he may kill in prison, or may kill during an escape attempt - but in most death penalty cases the killer is in prison for many, many years before being put to death - so the additional risk to society of life in prison vs. death is simply a non-factor.


Read the article.  This particular prisoner was an "ESCAPEE" when he commited these crimes.  Now I dont know what he was initially in prison for but it does show there's a chance.
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Offline Samiam

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« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2004, 05:39:19 PM »
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Read the article.  This particular prisoner was an "ESCAPEE" when he commited these crimes.  Now I dont know what he was initially in prison for but it does show there's a chance.


Doh! Then let's drop the dude.

Actually, I still claim that the "risk to society" argument is lame as most people sentenced to death spend a long time in prison and have a nearly equal chance of being a societal risk as a lifer.
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2004, 05:46:08 PM »
Risk to society?  Bah.


You kill someone and we'll kill you back!  :D
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Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2004, 06:06:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
I believe that DNA must be used to prove guilt beyond scientific doubt.  Having said that I believe the death penalty should be carried out at sunrise of the day following conviction.


Unfortunately DNA isn't 100%.  There's always doubt about how the DNA got to it's location.

Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Also, every year the idiotic laws make millions of non-violent people commiting "victimless crimes" (marijuana posession., etc.) to become prisoners - which provides victims to the real criminals.[/B]


Indeed, the US has the most number of prisoners per capita in the world at 701 per 100,000.


As way of comparison:

Russia is second at 606 per 100,000.
Mexico has 156 per 100,000.
England has 140 per 100,000.
Canada has 116 per 100,000.
Germany has 98 per 100,000
France has 93 per 100,000.
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/rel/icps/worldbrief/world_brief.html
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2004, 06:37:38 PM »
So, it seems like the US gun liberty AND death penalties do not keep people from crime so easily.
My humble country has the rate of 40, which means that the USA has relatively 20 times more people in jail!
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2004, 07:02:53 PM »
No offense to anyone wasting their time collecting this data, but the numbers don't mean anything.


The US has really stiff punishments.  Hence, more people will be in jail.


Other countries have lax punishment, hence less people in jail.



For example, a guy murdered a Belgian Senator.  He recieved 18 years jail with parole option at 8.  

In the US, he would have at least gotten life in prison.
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Offline kj714

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« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2004, 07:15:23 PM »
"Unfortunately DNA isn't 100%. There's always doubt about how the DNA got to it's location."

OJ probably shot a good round of golf today. Our legal system is a circus altogether.
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Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2004, 10:15:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
No offense to anyone wasting their time collecting this data, but the numbers don't mean anything.


Of course it means something.


Quote
The US has really stiff punishments.  Hence, more people will be in jail.

Other countries have lax punishment, hence less people in jail.


Now corrolate the stats I presented with the number of crimes in the given countries.
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Offline miko2d

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« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2004, 09:26:34 AM »
Thrawn: Indeed, the US has the most number of prisoners per capita in the world at 701 per 100,000.
As way of comparison:
Russia is second at 606 per 100,000.

 In Russia one would get 5 years for an offense that in US would result in probation - like theft.


Angus: So, it seems like the US gun liberty AND death penalties do not keep people from crime so easily.
My humble country has the rate of 40, which means that the USA has relatively 20 times more people in jail!

 Most of the people in jail are there for the so-called "victimless crime" non-violent offenses that got criminalised illegitimetely. A couple of ounces of marijuana in your posession or a few plants in your backyard woudl land you in jail for 10 years in USA. What do "gun liberty AND death penalties" have to do with that?
 In your humble country (which you did not care to indicate in your profile), those offences are probably not a crime at all.

 Also, we have the same laws and guns for all but the crime rate among blacks in US is much greater than among whites - even comparing the samples with the same income level. Almost half of inmates in US prisons are blacks despite being 12% of the population. Another 13% are hispanics that are also disproportionately represented in jail/crime stats.
 I bet that your country is mostly white, so you should compare your stats with the stats of white US population if you want to make any sense.

 Remove blacks from your stats, you get drop in half. Remove hispanics, you probably get it halved again. Remove drug-posession offences for which in your country no jail is given, and US stats will be about as good as yours.

 miko
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Offline Naso

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« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2004, 10:00:55 AM »
I've found the solution!!

Kill the blacks and hispanics !!!

:)
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Offline Mini D

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« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2004, 10:54:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
I don't recall saying you did.
You inferred it with the suggestion that not liking the 9th's policies equates to liking the other extreme MT.  

MiniD
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Offline miko2d

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« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2004, 12:29:50 PM »
Naso: I've found the solution!!
Kill the blacks and hispanics !!! :)

 Just because damn foreigners do not understand how to analyse statistics? :)

 miko
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2004, 06:56:37 PM »
Miko2d:
"I bet that your country is mostly white, so you should compare your stats with the stats of white US population if you want to make any sense.

Remove blacks from your stats, you get drop in half. Remove hispanics, you probably get it halved again. Remove drug-posession offences for which in your country no jail is given, and US stats will be about as good as yours. "
Neg Miko, I did your maths and they go as 700/2/2=approx 175 vs 40. We do have jail for the drug stuff, and not to mention tax offence which will stuff you to jail in no time. Also, roughly 10% included in our figures are foreigners, usually in jail for the drug reason.
Explain your figures again vs a country like the UK who has a lot of coloured people, maybe more than the USA?
And anyway, the percentage in jail goes along nicely with the capital crime rate, which is the highest in the US of any western nation.

BTW, what's wrong with blacks? Genetic crime gene connected with their colour?
(In case you wonder, I am a pinknose :D )
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)
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