Author Topic: "Only in Finland".... (Read 7680 times)

Kieran · « **Reply #75 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:04:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Staga
btw when is your government going to prosecute those people at Guantanamo?
You really should care more about your own concentration camps than if someone got a nice big fine because he drove thru the city at 200kmh at 120kmh zone (thats 124mph at 74mph zone).

I guess the better question is if your country cannot settle traffic violations in an equitable fashion, how can they hope to comprehend an issue as complex as Guantanamo?

Staga · « **Reply #76 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:11:01 PM »

Naah; It's all about justice.

If you do the crime you must be punished. Now how would you be sure that the penalty produces equal burden for the offenders with different income? 500€ fine is pennies for someone but can be a ticket to prison for someone else.
First guy loses some pocket money when another loses his freedom, work and maybe everything with that. Sentence would be unreasonable for the latter and that's why our legislationsystem is build like it is.

We have much less lawyers and prisoners per 100.000 habitants than you have so my guess is we're doing something right

mietla · « **Reply #77 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:21:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Staga
Naah; It's all about justice.

If you do the crime you must be punished. Now how would you be sure that the penalty produces equal burden for the offenders with different income? 500€ fine is pennies for someone but can be a ticket to prison for someone else.
First guy loses some pocket money when another loses his freedom, work and maybe everything with that. Sentence would be unreasonable for the latter and that's why our legislationsystem is build like it is.

We have much less lawyers and prisoners per 100.000 habitants than you have so my guess is we're doing something right

That is simply absurd.

Staga · « **Reply #78 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:23:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieran
I guess the better question is if your country cannot settle traffic violations in an equitable fashion, how can they hope to comprehend an issue as complex as Guantanamo?

Mr.Salonoja made the crime, he was in court, was found guilty and was convicted. Now he has two choices: Pay the fine or do the time.

Now if we look at your prisoners at Guantanamo: No proven crimes, haven't been in any court (civil or martian), no way to answer accusations, no knowledge if they can ever get in front of the court.

Kieran I understand that it is a hard place for a citizen of a country which promotes freedom and justice to see people put into the concentration camps without rights to defend themself in the court... You just need to face the facts buddy

Staga · « **Reply #79 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:28:16 PM »

Mietla oneliners like yours make you look silly; if you have something to add to this conversation please use more than four words in your next post.
Saying "simple absurd" doesn't help me understand your opinion at all and thus your post was nothing but waste of typing and space in this board

NUKE · « **Reply #80 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:31:50 PM »

who cares? It's only Finland.

It's not like it matters to anyone what Finland does.

Kieran · « **Reply #81 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:39:41 PM »

Staga, you are defending an absurd system. Want another reason you have few lawyers? Apparently your draconian system of law doesn't allow for them.

So, is car insurance pro-rated by income? Come on, do tell. And no more sidetracks on Guantanamo, you know you're just avoiding the obvious.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #82 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:39:42 PM »

I dunno, from what I can see, they are one of the most redneck countries in Europe, so we might want to make friends with them. And they buy our fighter planes. Also if you consider their population size, they have by far the highest proportion of world class race drivers and hockey players.

mrblack · « **Reply #83 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:42:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FUNKED1
I dunno, from what I can see, they are one of the most redneck countries in Europe, so we might want to make friends with them. And they buy our fighter planes. Also if you consider their population size, they have by far the highest proportion of world class race drivers and hockey players.

An ignorant quote from an ignorant person WOW theres a shocker.

NUKE · « **Reply #84 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:49:33 PM »

So I assume Finland has a flat tax rate then too?

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #85 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:55:52 PM »

Dude they even have drag racing, funny cars and everything. Most of the Finns who post here and AGW know their way around firearms, they like to drink a lot, hell one of them is a truck driver. On the WRC show they showed Marcus Gronholm, probably one of the richest men in Finland, enjoying his summer holiday. Fishing, boating (no water skiing, just manly powerboating), and driving a tractor on his farm. Other than the tax rates and the weather I think it would be a cool place to live. Nothing wrong with being a 'neck.

fd ski · « **Reply #86 on:** February 10, 2004, 10:09:44 PM »

Funk and mietla, do you want to discuss the topic or just post one liners ?

Whole thing is simply about punishment for breaking the law. I'm not talking about insurance or taxes, to get that out of your heads.

Let me give you different example:

Let's say I'm an average human, but you funk, in all your greatness have been genetically modified to have huge tongue and live 300 years. Let's say it's a known fact, right here and now that I have another 50 years left while you have 270 more to go.

Punishment for murder is 25 year ( for example ).
I wouldn't do it, for me it' s a half of my remaining time.
For you, on the other hand, not that much of a deal, is it ? Only 1/10th ?

Punishment is supposed to deter person from doing the same thing again, it's hardly a deterent if subjected person barely notices it.

NUKE · « **Reply #87 on:** February 10, 2004, 10:13:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by fd ski
Funk and mietla, do you want to discuss the topic or just post one liners ?

Whole thing is simply about punishment for breaking the law. I'm not talking about insurance or taxes, to get that out of your heads.

Let me give you different example:

Let's say I'm an average human, but you funk, in all your greatness have been genetically modified to have huge tongue and live 300 years. Let's say it's a known fact, right here and now that I have another 50 years left while you have 270 more to go.

Punishment for murder is 25 year ( for example ).
I wouldn't do it, for me it' s a half of my remaining time.
For you, on the other hand, not that much of a deal, is it ? Only 1/10th ?

Punishment is supposed to deter person from doing the same thing again, it's hardly a deterent if subjected person barely notices it.

What happens if a guy worth 2 cents speeds in a borrowed car? What is his fine?

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #88 on:** February 10, 2004, 10:14:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by fd ski
Let's say I'm an average human, but you funk, in all your greatness have been genetically modified to have huge tongue and live 300 years.

LOL nice example.

I understand what you are saying, in fact I'm not sure I ever disputed it directly. I just don't think income is any of the government's business. Assuming they have that knowledge, your logic makes sense.

mietla · « **Reply #89 on:** February 10, 2004, 10:54:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by fd ski
Funk and mietla, do you want to discuss the topic or just post one liners ?

Brevity is a soul of wit my friend.

As I said, I consider this system to be a completely absurd and totally unacceptable. There is no point in arguing it. You either believe in a principle of equality under law or you don't. Once you accept that "equality of pain" is a goal here, there is no stopping until you get absurd.

For example, if the punishment should be a funcion of income, why not rewards. This way a wealthy person should be paid much more than a poor person (for the same job).

What should your fine be if you are poor but your parents are wealthy?

Why should we tolerate unequal hardship while buying anything? Why should bread or butter cost the same for everybody?

You see? in addition to being fundamentally unfair, it gets ridiculous in a hurry. Just like any egalitarian utopian pie in a sky beyond "equal before the law".

I just can't believe you are serious. Troll away

Quote

Originally posted by fd ski
Whole thing is simply about punishment for breaking the law. I'm not talking about insurance or taxes, to get that out of your heads.

Let me give you different example:

Let's say I'm an average human, but you funk, in all your greatness have been genetically modified to have huge tongue and live 300 years. Let's say it's a known fact, right here and now that I have another 50 years left while you have 270 more to go.

Punishment for murder is 25 year ( for example ).
I wouldn't do it, for me it' s a half of my remaining time.
For you, on the other hand, not that much of a deal, is it ? Only 1/10th ?

Punishment is supposed to deter person from doing the same thing again, it's hardly a deterent if subjected person barely notices it. [/B]

You yourself just showed an absurdity of this thing.