This one's for ya, Wmaker!

[lucull]

Just for your info, this symbol would be illegal too.

[GScholz]

Why?

My German is so shoddy that I will have to ask you to translate please:

Achtung Hakenkreuze!

Die auf diesen Seiten gezeigten Abbildungen dienen ausschließlich zu Zwecken der staatsbürgerlichen Aufklärung, der Abwehr verfassungswidriger und verfassungsfeindlicher Bestrebungen, der Aufklärung oder Berichterstattung über die Vorgänge des Zeitgeschehens oder der militärhistorischen und wissenschaftlichen Forschung (§86 und §86a StGB). Wer diese Abbildungen herunterlädt oder kopiert, verpflichtet sich hiermit, dieselben nur für o.a. Zwecke zu erwerben und in keiner Weise propagandistisch im Sinne des §86 und §86a StGB zu benutzen!

To my understanding German law bans the use of the Swastika, but that an exception is made for where it is used in a historical context.

[lucull]

Historical context is not enough.

The 2 exceptions are:

1. For historical ducumentation -> a computer game is no historical documentation
2. In a critical context -> not the case here, too

Conclusion, german players would risk to pay a fine or up to 3 years prison downloading the game.

This german law is very clear in what is allowed and what not and it includes any modifications of the swastika and symbols of forbidden organisations (SS, SA, ...), which people can recognize as swastika/symbol modification.

On the other hand, the swastika is one of the oldest symbols of human mankind and it's a shame that the Nazis misused it.

Germany is also not the only country where the swastika is forbidden.

Also, the allies have forbidden it in Germany in 1945.

If you click on the link you get an overview of forbidden symbols: http://www.rechts-nein-danke.de/kennzeichen.html

[straffo]

Kweassa having a rotated version of the Ukrainska Natsionalna Asamblea  is exactly like the Nazi symbol.

I won't ever fly a plane with such a label.

http://www.una-unso.org/av/index.asp


I'm sorry if I sound harsh
Afterthought you were perhaps just trying to find an correct way to circumvant a problem for you.

The only problem is that some Neo-Nazi have worked to circumvant this laws before you.

[GScholz]

Thanks Lucull for clearing that up, my German is good enough to understand most of everyday conversations, but German "legalese" is beyond my comprehension.

The Iron Cross (Eisernes Kreuz) is not illegal according to that page you linked. It is also the emblem of the modern Luftwaffe, so it is appropriate.





I think the Iron Cross might be a very good substitute tail marking for AH LW planes.

[BenDover]

Originally posted by lucull

If you click on the link you get an overview of forbidden symbols: http://www.rechts-nein-danke.de/kennzeichen.html

**** ME THATS ALOT OF SYMBOLS!!:eek:

[lucull]

Yepp, because under the Nazis everything was organized in a organization... everything.

[Kweassa]

I appreciate your inputs guys, and straffo, don't worry, it wasn't harsh. In fact, it's exactly the kind of input I needed The sight for banned symbols is very useful, too. Thanks for the links.

 Sheesh, those modern day Nazis worked on almost every variation there is possible, seems really can't use anything that even remotely resembles a black cruciform figure with white trims.

 Also, the modern-day Luftwaffe symbol seems to be considered illegal too, according to the linked pages.

 "Eisernes Kreuz - Das Zurschaustellen des Eisernen Kreuzes ohne Hakenkreuz, ist seit 1957 straffrei. ??

 

 Gscholz, now it actually looks like the black Aces of Spades might be the only cool lookin' option that's left to me!

[GScholz]

"Eisernen Kreuzes ohne Hakenkreuz, ist seit 1957 straffrei"

This means: "Iron Cross without Swastika, has been legal since 1957". "Straffrei" means "punishment-free". Only the Nazi era Iron Cross with the little Swastika in the center is illegal. The modern day LW one is perfectly legal (duh!).

[straffo]

Originally posted by GScholz
"Eisernen Kreuzes ohne Hakenkreuz, ist seit 1957 straffrei"

This means: "Iron Cross without Swastika, has been legal since 1957". "Straffrei" means "punishment-free". Only the Nazi era Iron Cross with the little Swastika in the center is illegal. The modern day LW one is perfectly legal (duh!).

If you dig a bit more you will be able to find one of the origin of my handle

Kweassa why don't you use a low vis HakenKreuz ?

But don't forget that as it will be in the position of the swastika some will still think it's some sort of swastika anyway and it will lead to some raging debate.

IMO it would be safer to leave this part free or to put some complelty different emblem like the Blazon of the hometown of the pilot.

[lucull]

Yepp, the Iron Cross (Eisernes Kreuz) can be used.
I took a look at the page again. Not every symbol is forbidden, the Iron Cross is one of the exceptions on the page. Unfortunatly they are mixing things up a bit.

IMO, you should leave that place blank Kweassa. Any replacement with another symbol wouldn't look well and there is no possible workaround to modify the swastika. The law is very clear and has no holes.

[Kweassa]

While it really pains me to do so, yeah.. it seems the only alternative is no alternative... The finished version will be uploaded at the SkinDep. w/o the swastika, or any other substitutes... *grooan*

 I guess the consolation will have to come from the Darth Vader pilot suit!

[moot]

Hey Wilbus,

Can you rehost those pilot illustrations for a moment?

thanks in advance,
m.