Kerry is scarey.......

[john9001]

Coulter said
Cleland lost three limbs in an accident during a routine noncombat mission ...He saw a grenade on the ground and picked it up...


crow said
while disembarking from his transport helicopter, Capt. Cleland reached for a grenade he believed had become dislodged from his web gear....The grenade exploded and severely injured Capt. Cleland.


oh yeah ...sounds like two compleatly different storys to me.

[Toad]

I believe Crow has it right. Coulter stated the basic facts but left out a lot. Sins of omission, like I said.

Look, Cleland is a Silver Star recipient. Got his in combat at Khe Sahn. I wasn't there but I bet he did something worthy of that medal.

Max. I view you as one hell of a man, even though we don't always agree politically.


Jeebuz...... some of you guys.

[Toad]

Also, for the record, Cleland's Silver Star citation, from 4 days before the grenade accident:

"Awarded: Silver Star; Date Action: 4 April 1968; Theater: Republic of Vietnam

"Action: For gallantry in action while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an armed hostile force in the Republic of Vietnam. Captain Cleland distinguished himself by exceptionally valorous action on 4 April 1968, while serving as communications officer of the 2nd Battalion, 12th Cavalry during an enemy attack near Khe Sanh, Republic of Vietnam.

"When the battalion command post came under a heavy enemy rocket and mortar attack, Capt. Cleland, disregarding his own safety, exposed himself to the rocket barrage as he left his covered position to administer first aid to his wounded comrades. He then assisted in moving the injured personnel to covered positions. Continuing to expose himself, Capt. Cleland organized his men into a work party to repair the battalion communications equipment which had been damaged by enemy fire. His gallant action is in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service, and reflects great credit upon himself, his unit, and the United States Army.

"Authority: By direction of the President, under the provisions of the Act of Congress, approved 9 July 1968."

Shaddup and salute the man. Wish that if the day ever comes you'll have the huevos to do something similar.

[crowMAW]

Originally posted by Toad
Which facts?

She omits that he earned the Silver Star for a different, separate incidient...

Toad, your later posts seem to indicate you've been reading on this subject, so the following is just providing the facts for other readers:

These are the facts that are in error...not just mischaracterization or omissions, but bald-face lies.  

She says, "Cleland lost three limbs in an accident during a routine noncombat mission where he was about to drink beer with friends. "  The truth is that he volunteered to set up a radio relay on a mountain top in support of the Khe Sahn action.  He and his signals team were airlifted to the site.  It was on this mission--not a beer drinking routine noncombat mission--that he noticed the grenade after exiting the transport chopper.  Combat operations in a combat zone.

She states, "There was no bravery involved in dropping a grenade on himself with no enemy troops in sight."  The grenade was another soldier's, not his.  As far as "no enemy in sight"...this was a mountain top at Khe Sahn--a spot that was one of the fiercest battlegrounds of the war where 730 Americans were killed in action and 2,642 were wounded.  This wasn't while on RR in Japan or even Saigon.  Again, this was a combat zone during combat operations.

Coulter is a yellow journalist of the highest order and should be fired for making up stories without checking her facts.

[Munkii]

Originally posted by crowMAW
Coulter is a yellow journalist of the highest order and should be fired for making up stories without checking her facts.

I hate to see journalists on either side play down military service and awards.  If a man loses an arm in a war because of a grenade accident it is serious business, and not something they should attack them for.  I don't think people should be attacking Bush over his ANG service, or John Kerry over his protests after the war.  Vietnam was a bad era for US military and politics.  By bringing up everyone's Vietnam era skeletons, they just sling mud, and completely disregard the issues of today.

There should be more focus on voting records, and accomplishements while in office.  I don't care if we have a reformed alcoholic for a President, or an adulterer.  If their private life doesn't interfere with their ability to lead the country and steer us to better economic health, and national security without taking away our liberties then they are okay by me.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Munkii
There should be more focus on voting records, and
accomplishements while in office.  

I think it would be easier for Kerry if people just focused on his bizzare post vietnam behavior and possible infidelity for his voting record and accomplishments in office are truly despicable....

[Munkii]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I think it would be easier for Kerry if people just focused on his bizzare post vietnam behavior and possible infidelity for his voting record and accomplishments in office are truly despicable....

Why not bring his dispicable voting record out then? Maybe there could have been a better DNC candidate.  I don't like Kerry, and I don't like Bush.  I basically have no one to vote for in the 2 party system we have today.  I'll just have to wait to see who is going to be on the ballot, hopefully I'll know something about the non GOP or DNC candidates to make a worthwhile decision.

[GRUNHERZ]

I do, his record is really awful.

For example Kerry now posing as a "National Security" candidate voted to gut funding fpr some 30 key military programs like the M1 Abrams tank, The bradly AFV, the ah64 apache, the f15, f16, patriot missle, etc etc... He also voted to cut intelligence spending.

The now anti big special interest $$$ candidate Kerry also took in more lobbist money than any other senator from either party during his 19 years in office...  He authored practically no legislation during the same 19 years. IIRC he only attended some 1/3 of his votes in the senate....

[Toad]

Originally posted by crowMAW
Coulter is a yellow journalist of the highest order and should be fired for making up stories without checking her facts.

Oh, she's partisan alright. Very. She's an embarassment to the trade. She didn't really entirely make up the story though. She slanted it and twisted it. Cleland was on his way out of Khe Sahn on that chopper; he probably was going to have a beer when he got back. I would have had six or more. But her presentation is just BS. And she should be ashamed. She should apologize to Cleland and it p.o.'s me to the point I'll probably drop her a nasty E-Mail so she can ignore that too.

Of course, I view many of the pundits on the other side the same way when they twist the Bush/Guard thing into something way beyond what it actually is.

I saw some dittzy black woman pundit award Kerry the Congressional in the Sunday paper today. You'd think she'd know the difference between the MOH and a SS.

Face it.. our media pretty much suxxors.

We probably both agree on that too.

[Toad]

I did just send Coulter a zinger. Felt good, too.

[10Bears]

Thx for picking that up Crow,

Earlier I was reading more of the story. For 25 years Max Cleland was beating himself over the head.. “My God, I must be the stupidest guy in the world. How could I possibly not set the pen correctly” then, a few years ago he receives a  letter from an old Army buddy -- “Max,  you remember the grenade you took?” Well yeah.. “It came off the cherries web”.. Can you imagine the sense of self guilt he must of felt for so many years?.. I sure can’t.

So he gets home from the war.. no job, no car, no wife, no girlfriend, no plans.. practically no body.  It was a dark period. But then, because of his faith in God, he jumped head first into his Georgia State senate campaign and won. Later, President Carter offered him a job as head of the Veterans administration which he ran like a Swiss watch. The rest of the story you know but needless to say, he is an inspiration to any young man right now at Walter Reed who might be feeling a bit poorly.

To me, Sen. Max Cleland is the very essence of the word “hero”

[lazs2]

kerry is damaged good... if you want to honor his service... name a VA hospital after him or let him lead parades or something but don't let him run the government.

lazs