Author Topic: AR's recipe for a good American  (Read 2394 times)

Offline Duedel

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« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2004, 01:13:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
Like your opinion matters to most Americans....too funny

U surely mean US citizens and not americans, however after all i pissed u off and thats what i like, redneck.

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2004, 01:29:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Duedel
U surely mean US citizens and not americans, however after all i pissed u off and thats what i like, redneck.


I simply do not know how I will sleep tonight.

Offline Duedel

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« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2004, 01:32:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw
I simply do not know how I will sleep tonight.

Oh I'm sorry. Didnt want to scare u.

Offline kappa

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« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2004, 01:44:03 PM »
lol Duedel   :lol :lol
- TWBYDHAS

Offline ravells

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« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2004, 01:55:12 PM »
Lol Miko!

Good analogy! (Although I think she would probably say that she was the dominant party AND perfect!)


Anti-trust laws are there to keep the spirit of competition alive.

Now, in the microsoft case, I don't know if, they did or did not break those laws, but getting back to the original question, I was simply pointing out that the statement attributed to Mr Rooney in this matter appears reasonable at first glance, but because it is such a generalisation, doesn't stand up to closer inspection. It's a common device sophist device.

Lasersailor, I don't follow your analogy.

I think that Netscape's argument was (cut and pasted):

"How can anyone expect to survive the onslaught of the Microsoft machine? All they have to do is bundle something with their OS for a few years and all competition dies. You can't compete with something that is free AND comes with something else you need anyway. Especially when they need to work together?"

The point about monopolies, or near monopolies are that they are bad for competition, which is why you have the Sherman Act in the US. The difficulty is in recognising when that point has been reached - hence the need to take the matter to court.

I found this interesting snippet:

The U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee passed a bill that allows the U.S. government to bring antitrust lawsuits against OPEC. Sen. Mike DeWine (R-Ohio) said, U.S. consumers suffer from "unreasonably high and erratic pricing" and the U.S. must go after the source of the problem. Presently, antitrust laws exclude OPEC. But, if the "No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels Act" (NOPEC) becomes law, it will enable the U.S government to take antitrust action against foreign states engaging in anti-competitive conduct with regard to oil and other petroleum products. The bill also gives U.S. federal district courts jurisdiction over such cases.

Seems like Anti-trust law is well and thriving in the States!

Ravs

Lasz: Anti-trust legislation is not 'socialist' it attempts to preserve a balance in the free market.

Offline Rude

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« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2004, 02:12:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Duedel
U surely mean US citizens and not americans, however after all i pissed u off and thats what i like, redneck.


Pissed off is far from it....tired yes.....remember, as long as you live, you'll still just be a whiney socialist wishing he had the wherewithall to affect change in our country.

Kinda pitiful.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2004, 02:18:20 PM »
duedal.... I believe that while you don't "frieghten" us.... we do have a right to be at least a little cautious around germans.


lazs

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2004, 02:18:27 PM »
ravells: Good analogy! (Although I think she would probably say that she was the dominant party AND perfect!)

 And you better believe it for you own good. :)

Anti-trust laws are there to keep the spirit of competition alive.

 That's the most productive scam that the socialists and other opressors have invented yet - expanding their power and taxing people in order to keep the Laws of Nature operating.

 Starting with priests who demanded tribute in order to keep the Sun raising or rain falling.

 There is no need to keep the spirit of competition alive - especially by preventing the free competition and violating property rights (which is what any government intervention invariably does). Competition keeps itself alive because it is based on the basic properties of the human mind and always thrives in the abcense of violent coersion.

 Any kind of a monopoly is never complete and short-lived, being inherently unstable, so practically any monopoly you care to name used the government's restriction on competition to exist.


...the statement attributed to Mr Rooney in this matter appears reasonable at first glance, but because it is such a generalisation, doesn't stand up to closer inspection.

 I believe it does. Any wealth earned in voluntary exchange is legitimate, because in order to get it one has to provide equal or better value to the customer. There is no such thing as an overpriced good where voluntary exchange happens.

I think that Netscape's argument was (cut and pasted):
"How can anyone expect to survive the onslaught of the Microsoft machine? All they have to do is bundle something with their OS for a few years and all competition dies. You can't compete with something that is free AND comes with something else you need anyway. Especially when they need to work together?"


 They want to sell us stuff that the Microsoft wanted to give us for free. What an outrage. So what if the competition dies - which never happens, by the way? The moment they start charging for the software, the competition would arise again.

The point about monopolies, or near monopolies are that they are bad for competition,

 They are the natural and temporary outcome of competition and subect to it.

 which is why you have the Sherman Act in the US. The difficulty is in recognising when that point has been reached - hence the need to take the matter to court.

Seems like Anti-trust law is well and thriving in the States!

 It does - as well as plenty of monopoly-promoting laws and the rest of socialist structure. Doesn't mean it is legitimate.
 It uses non-competitive monopolistic power to interfere with tthe people's property rights and freedom of contract based on nothing more than arbitrary opinions.

 miko

Offline Capt. Pork

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« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2004, 03:05:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Duedel
U surely mean US citizens and not americans, however after all i pissed u off and thats what i like, redneck.


C'mon, man, why are you trying to piss people off? It's not like this thread was entitled:

'George S. Patton's Recipe for a Good German'

At least then your implicit anger would be justified.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2004, 03:07:47 PM by Capt. Pork »

Offline Virage

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« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2004, 03:21:41 PM »
cut&paste...

Theft of name for vicious e-mail more hurtful
than loss of suitcase or $20

By Andy Rooney
Syndicated columnist

Two years ago, someone broke my car window, took some things from the glove compart_ment and a suitcase I had left on the backseat.

Twenty years ago, I had a motorbike stolen from my garage. In the Army, at Fort Bragg, someone went through my footlocker and took $20 I had saved for the day I could get a 24-hour pass. These were the only brushes w crime Id had in my life until recently.

Now, several thieves have taken something of great value from me - my name.

More than a year ago, people started sending me copies of an e-mail that was appearing on computers all over the country. It was a list of about 20 comments, each one or two sentences long, under my byline. The piece was titled, “In Praise of Older Women - By Andy Rooney” It was sappy and obviously nothing I might have written, but harmless. While I didn’t like the idea of someone using my name as his own, I didn’t try to do anything about it.

Several months after I first saw the e-mail, a man named Frank Kaiser wrote asking why I had put my name on something he had written in 2000 for his syndicated column called Suddenly Senior I called Frank immediately and he accepted the fact that someone else had taken what he wrote and put my name on it.

There have been two other instances of someone distributing a list of opinions under my name. What would make someone write down a-series of personal observations and distribute them using my name as the author? It mystifies me.

About a year ago, I became aware of a more serious theft of my name and it is so hurtful to my reputation that it calls for legal action against the thief. Hundreds of people have written asking if I really wrote the 20 detestable remarks made under my name that have had such wide circulation on the Internet.

The list of remarks begins: “I like big cars, big boats, big motorcycles, big houses and big campfires."

It continues: “I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some governmental stooge with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts for squirting babies.”

“Guns do not make you a killer. I think killing makes you a killer."

“I have the right NOT to be tolerant of others because they are weird, different or tick me off.”

Some of the remarks, which I will not repeat here, are viciously racist and the spirit of the whole thing is nasty, mean and totally inconsistent with my philosophy of life. It is apparent that the list of comments has been read by

hundreds of thousands of Americans, many of whom must believe that it accurately represents opinions of mine that I don’t dare express in my column or on television. It is seriously damaging to my reputation.

The only good thing to come out of this incident is the dozens of letters I’ve received from people saying they know me well enough to know I didn’t write the comments. There must be many more, however, who are ready to believe I did write them.

I have tracked the e-mail back to an address in Tucson and a Web site called “CelebrityHypocrites.com,” which is owned by a man named Pave Mason. Mr. Mason lists as his address, “405 East Wetmore Road, No. 117 PMB 520, Tucson Arizona 85705.”

I was in Tucson recently and foolishly went to that address thinking it might be Mason's home or business. I’d like to know more about Mason, but the address was a commercial mailbox business and I didn’t wait around for him to show up so I could confront him. If it is Dave Mason who has stolen my name, I demand that he put out a retraction that reaches as many people as his fraudulent e-mail did.

Andy Rooney is a syndicated columnist and commentator on “60 Minutes.”
JG11

Vater

Offline ravells

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« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2004, 03:21:57 PM »
Miko,  why do you think that monopolies have never stood the test of time?

It's not so much because the monopoly failed, but because people got so angry about them that they passed anti-trust legislation, simply because for a free market economy to survive there has to be some balancing factors in order to KEEP it a free market economy.

Even if you are right (that all monopolies are destined to fail) how many life-times does one have to wait for them to fail? How many people have to see their businesses ruined because regardless of whether they've built a better mouse-trap, someone with a lot more money comes along and gives away a free mouse-trap until you're out of business?

This has nothing to do with socialism, it has everything to do with keeping a free market a free market.  

Ravs

btw...even Hayek thinks that!

Offline Capt. Pork

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« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2004, 03:25:18 PM »
It's been established that he didn't say it. Check some of the previous posts. I agree, the real author deserves credit for it. As for Rooney, he can defend himself all he likes. His endorsement, or lack thereof, doesn't take away from the inherent value, however bluntly stated, of the quote.

Offline ravells

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« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2004, 03:37:18 PM »
Virage,

I am very glad you posted that, because it debunks far more eloquently the sophistry of these commandments attributed to Rooney.

Take a look at this one:

"I like big cars, big boats, big motorcycles, big houses and big
campfires. I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some governmental stooge with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts for squirting out babies.


The statement puts into the less acute reader's mind that all taxes are spent on 'crack addicts for squirting out babies'. What about programmes for building roads? Collecting garbage? Helping the less fortunate to get one foot on the rung so that they can become productive citizens?

the 'bad comb-over' comment' raises a stereotype which is intended to give credibility to the next part of the sentence.

The less acute reader is left thinking: YES! all my tax money is spent on crack heads....that must be wrong!

Or take this one:

I believe that if you are selling me a milk shake, a pack of cigarettes, a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact, if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak English!

If any immigrant in America wants to survive and prosper, I'm sure they would know that learning how to speak English is important, unless they want to live in a community of their own original nationality. I take Miko's view here: If you don't like the fact that the guy who is selling you a milk shake doesn't speak English, then go somewhere where somebody does.  So many of America's original immigrants didn't speak a word of English. Doesn't seem to have done their decendants any harm.

Or this one:

I have the right "NOT" to be tolerant of others because they are
different, weird, or tick me off. When 70% of the people who get
arrested are black, in cities where 70% of the population is black, that is not racial profiling, it is the Law of Probability.


Well, yes you have the right not to be tolerant of others (within the law) if you like...nobody is arguing with that. But look at how the words 'different and weird' suddenly get linked up with being black.

I could go on, but I hope you see the pattern emerging.

It's very clever argument, but if you have the brain to scratch the surface of it, you can see what it is leading up to.

Ravs

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2004, 03:45:37 PM »
ravells: Miko,  why do you think that monopolies have never stood the test of time?

 Natural market process.

It's not so much because the monopoly failed, but because people got so angry about them that they passed anti-trust legislation, simply because for a free market economy to survive there has to be some balancing factors in order to KEEP it a free market economy.

 Not really. Self-interest in the abcense of the government restrictions would ensure that much more reliably than arbitrary government intervention.

Even if you are right (that all monopolies are destined to fail) how many life-times does one have to wait for them to fail?

 Few years at best.

How many people have to see their businesses ruined because regardless of whether they've built a better mouse-trap, someone with a lot more money comes along and gives away a free mouse-trap until you're out of business?

 We should outlaw marriages. They drive prostitutes, laudries and restaurants out of business by giving the stuff for free. :)

This has nothing to do with socialism, it has everything to do with keeping a free market a free market.

 By preventing a customer from freely accepting free stuff? What happened to the right to dispose of one's property?

btw...even Hayek thinks that!

 The reasons that monopolies are unviable are not as intuitive as those for free trade but they are valid nevertheless.

 There are plenty of monopolies enforced by the governments but the naturally-occuring monopoly that would abuse its market power to the detriment of customers (which are the main concern-not competitors) have never been more than a hypothetical construct.

 miko

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2004, 03:50:57 PM »
Sophomoric crap...
Quote
"I like big cars, big boats, big motorcycles, big houses and big
campfires. I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some governmental stooge with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts for squirting out babies. Stupid strawman argument. I guess you don't want to pay for roads or munitions or unemployment benefits...??

Guns do not make you a killer. I think killing makes you a killer. You can kill someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is trying to ban you from driving to the ball game. ROFL... and who wants to "ban guns"? NO ONE of any significance.

I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason, that is why there are no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts! ARE YOU LISTENING MARTHA BURKE? Wondering what the Boy Scouts have to do with Augusta National?... Oh yea! NOTHING.

I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it is an opinion. and an uninformed one.

I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are things like the United Negro College Fund,
Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Too funny. No discrimination left in the world right?... doh!

Try to have things like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or Miss White America; and see what happens. Jesse Jackson will be knocking down your door. poor downtrodden white men... when will you get your fair share of the pie?

I have the right "NOT" to be tolerant of others because they are
different, weird, or tick me off. When 70% of the people who get
arrested are black, in cities where 70% of the population is black, that is not racial profiling, it is the Law of Probability. unfortunately, the percentages don't change when the population does. And profiling exists and has been proven to exist. One prime example was the main interstate in Florida... almost all "possible drug" stops were of Black people in "nice" cars. BS!

I believe that if you are selling me a milk shake, a pack of cigarettes, a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact, if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak English! I agree

My father and grandfather didn't die in vain so you can leave the
countries you were born in to come over and disrespect ours. I wonder who theis "you" is that he's talking to?

I think the police should have every right to shoot your sorry self if you threaten them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word "freeze" or "stop" in English, see the above lines.  Duh. Threaten a cop... no brainer, much like the rest of this tripe.

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or any other business. There are no special loan programs for immigrants.

We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our lives in wars to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they could come over here and tell us our constitution is a living document; and open to their interpretations. Do we have immigrants serving on the Supreme Court?

I believe a self-righteous liberal or conservative with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude. amen... hey! What about this article?

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system that's better, and put your name on the building. Ask your buddy who invented the Internet to help you. Once again....Gore was instrumental in passing legislation that funded the Arpanet and helped develop what is today the internet... sorry to burst your "gore invented everything" joke bubble.

"I think tattoos and piercing are fine if you want them, but please
don't pretend they are a political statement. And, please, stay home until that new lip ring heals. I don't want to look at your ugly infected mouth as you serve me french fries! No worries... it's probably herpes anyway..... enjoy your fries.

I am sick of "Political Correctness." I know a lot of black people, and not a single one of them was born in Africa; so how can they be"African-Americans"? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather was from Europe. Maybe thats because you know which Country your ancestors came from...They forgot to keep records for those lucky slaves who got to emmigrate.

I am proud to be from America and nowhere else. And if you don't like my point of view, tough. DON'T PASS IT ON!!" Okee Dokee

While life may not be the party we hoped for, while we're here we might as well dance. I'm guessing yours won't be a break dance.