anyone familiar with the freestate project?

[TPIguy]

I'm sure you guys have heard of this movement already. If not, open your mind and read.

http://www.freestateproject.org/index.jsp

some similar movements

http://freewest.org/phpBB2/index.php

http://www.southerncaucus.org/268.htm

[AdmRose]

Christ amighty! Its a freakin' cult!

[ra]

Probably a shadow organization for a NH real estate developer.

[gofaster]

The Free State Project is a plan in which 20,000 or more liberty-oriented people will move to New Hampshire, where they may work within the political system to reduce the size and scope of government. The success of the Free State Project would likely entail reductions in burdensome taxation and regulation, reforms in state and local law, an end to federal mandates, and a restoration of constitutional federalism, demonstrating the benefits of liberty to the rest of the nation and the world.

Why organize to move there?  Why don't they just pack up their stuff in an HSC (Huge Shopping Cart) and go there on their own volition?

[miko2d]

gofaster: Why organize to move there?  Why don't they just pack up their stuff in an HSC (Huge Shopping Cart) and go there on their own volition?

 That's a kind of a stupid and ignorant statement a person posts when he is advised to read something but is to lazy to do so, so he just invents some kind of idiotic crap and attributes it to others.

 To start with they did not organize to move there.

 They organised a few years ago and when their numbers reached 5,000 they voted on which state out of 10 proposed they should move to - after which about 500 opted out.

 Once the state has been decided, there is obviously no reason to join the organisation in order to move there though there may be other reasons to join the list.

 miko

[FUNKED1]

"Once you become aware of how limited your own personal liberty has become and how quickly and effortlessly freedoms are taken away, the Free State Project stands out as one of few ideas that could produce tangible change in our lifetime. The vision of Christian gun enthusiasts buying hand-painted targets from pot-smoking artists, laughing together while they give the tax man the finger, is beautiful enough to make the move."

[Toad]

Dang, my two favorites came in #2 and #3. I'm just NOT going East of the River.

Well, maybe a splinter WY or MT group will form.

[Crapgame]

Yeah, there is a similar movement afoot in South Carolina which would be much more tempting. Year round golf and better food. Still though, I wish the FSPers all the luck in the world. Perhaps they can show us the path back to the intentions of the Founding Fathers.

[gofaster]

Originally posted by miko2d
gofaster: Why organize to move there?  Why don't they just pack up their stuff in an HSC (Huge Shopping Cart) and go there on their own volition?

 That's a kind of a stupid and ignorant statement a person posts when he is advised to read something but is to lazy to do so, so he just invents some kind of idiotic crap and attributes it to others.
 

I read it.  So, why organize to move there?  Are we supposed to believe that these people are nomads wandering the desert looking for a homeland?

Personal insults are the weapons of the intellectually inferior.  You're obviously under the influence of Satan.

[miko2d]

gofaster: Personal insults are the weapons of the intellectually inferior.  You're obviously under the influence of Satan.

  He prefers to be called "Ha-Satan".

 Your statement implied that those guys are acting irrationally which is a personal comment - especially combined with some derogatory references.
 Still, I tried to word it as an opinion that it is your statement that was faulty, not the poster himself. You do not have to take it as a personal insult.

I read it.  So, why organize to move there?

 You read some of it but the reasons for their organisation are all listed there and you apparently did not get to those.

 They organised before they decided to move to NH. Their movement is political and active. They do not intend to move to the state that is freer that others. They intend to move to the most suitable state and actively and purposefully change its political structure by dismantling most of the government intervention there that they consider unconstitutional and contrary to liberty. In order to succeed, they need to maximise and leverage the influence of their rather small numbers.

 They plan to start from the local level, taking control of the local councils, proving that their policies work and then going from there.
 It is pretty obvious that coordination and organisation is very beneficial for any such undertaking. The 20,000 people dumped into a state of 1.5 million may do very little if not coordinated. On the other hand if they concentrate in several most suitable counties and achieve success there, they willlikely be able to advance their cause further.

Are we supposed to believe that these people are nomads wandering the desert looking for a homeland?

 They are regular americans and no more nomads than millions of other americans that change their residence every year in search of better place to live or the people who immigrated to america since its discovery. Many of them are well-educated professionals.
 They are not wandering any more than an average american does and there is nothing in their plans that requires you to believe they are "nomads wandering the desert looking for a homeland" to take their plans seriously.

 You are only supposed to believe that they will move to NH and vote on all levels of elections to oppose, reduce or dismantle most of the government's interference with the private economy and private lives.

 miko

[gofaster]

I see parallels between this movement and the political attempts of the Bagwan Rajneesh organization.  For those not familiar, the Bagwan Rajneesh was a religious leader who founded a commune in Oregon.  In 1984 (I think?), one of the nearby towns was going to hold elections for local political offices.  The cult fielded a platform of their own members as candidates in the election in an attempt to take over the town politically.  

The commune was so large that it was almost its own self-contained city.   It grew its own food, had its own school, and even had its own hospital.  Local law enforcement became concerned when the commune started fielding its own militia.

As election day grew near, several of the local town's citizens suddenly fell ill from salmonella poisoning.  The source was traced to a salad bar at a local restaurant, but how the food became contaminated could not be determined.

As part of a regular review of facilities at the commune by government officials, one of the officials noticed a vial of salmonella at the commune's hospital lab.  He confiscated it, compared it to the salmonella that had infected the town citizens, and saw that it was the same identical strain.

Long story short, it was determined that a cult leader and the hospital director had conspired to make the town citizens sick; so sick that the people wouldn't be able to cast their votes on election day.  With opposition decreased by lower voter turn-out, the cult would have a better chance of winning the election.  Arrest warrants were issued for the 2nd-in-command of the cult and the hospital officer, but nothing could be found that would indicate that the Bagwan was responsible for the plan.  He ended up being deported on an unrelated visa violation.

The cult broke up some time later.  The compound is now being used as a Summer camp by Younglife, a non-profit Christian foundation.

The restaurant where the people got sick ended up closing and placing the owner in financial ruin.

This Freestate movement makes me wonder how long it will be before the FBI steps in.  I wouldn't be surprised if they're being monitored on a regular basis.