Author Topic: manual trim ??????????? (Read 957 times)

blav · « **on:** February 20, 2004, 04:25:37 AM »

i ve just begun using the manual trims in my planes
im not sure of the proper use of them i use all or lvl
ina a turn i use full ele up ina dive i use all dwn

my ??? is this do u set elev to 1 setting when u merge to fight

if not what is the proper way to use them ???????

any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated

thnx
~~BLAV~~

Dowding · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2004, 04:33:58 AM »

I usually hit combat trim just before the fight, then disable it and then forget about trim altogether. Trim as a tool to fight with is over-rated. The only time I find it useful is to pull out of compression when diving.

Blooz · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2004, 02:43:31 PM »

Fly straight and level then center your joystick. If the plane is slowly climbing or diving adjust the trim to make it fly level. Do the same with roll and yaw. If your plane is "clean" there will be little adjustment normally. if your plane is heavy with bombs rockets and fuel, more adjustment will be necessary (after you fire those weapons you'll need to re- adjust). If you have battle damage like a lost wingtip or elevator you can use the trim to help to keep the plane flying in a straight line.

Use your dashboard gauges to help you keep the plane straight. The "stick and ball" will indicate roll and yaw while the climb/dive indicator will give indication of, well, climb and dive.

In normal use the ailerons and elevator trim just need to be centered or close, the rudder will be the one you play with most as the plane loses weight from ammo and fuel and changes in altitude.

blav · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2004, 03:36:48 AM »

thnx guys ill give it a try

~~blav~~

Ecke-109- · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2004, 06:27:40 PM »

Quote

In normal use the ailerons and elevator trim just need to be centered or close, the rudder will be the one you play with most as the plane loses weight from ammo and fuel and changes in altitude.

??
What plane are you talking about?
I can only talk about 109s and 190s.
In 109 you need a lot of aileron trim. It depends on speed. When you are faster you need less aileron trim. But trim indicator is always on the right side.
I can dive with higher speed in 109 when manually trimming the elevator. Needs to trim it down. 109 does compress later then.
Rudder is always in default position. I guess it was only needed to compensate wind from the side. You can forget that in the game (i do that).
In 190 you dont need much aileron trim. Its almost centered.
If you are sensitive enough, you can feel what manual trimming is good for.
I felt that sometimes at the top of a rope when almost stalling. In combat trim it starts 'pumping' then. That might disturb you to control the plane. Also in a stall fight. But there you cant feel it very good because your always working with your joystick while maneuvering. That covers the 'pumping'.

Steve · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2004, 12:13:44 AM »

Quote

The only time I find it useful is to pull out of compression when diving

Trim can really help you get around in loops and turns... help you pull that extra lead for a shot... those that don't find it useful are really missing out on a worthwhile tool. Ask any of the aces in the arena... I'll bet just about everyone uses elevator trim in fights for far more than compression compensation.

WT? Todd? shane? AKAK? ....

Shane · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2004, 01:15:10 AM »

nope. i'm a lazy CTer. akak likes to manually have his plane trimmed neutral (38) and only futzes with it occasionally. i think levi is another lazy CTer. actually i think most of the "tnb" names are probably CTers.

it'd be the more tentative type of flyer that uses manual trim as some sort of subconscious "proof" that they're somehow "superior."

the only time i futz with manual trim is in a dive to avoid becoming a lawndart.

Steve · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2004, 01:49:04 AM »

WldThing · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2004, 09:40:29 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Steve
Trim can really help you get around in loops and turns... help you pull that extra lead for a shot... those that don't find it useful are really missing out on a worthwhile tool. Ask any of the aces in the arena... I'll bet just about everyone uses elevator trim in fights for far more than compression compensation.

WT? Todd? shane? AKAK? ....

Well to be honest, manual trim can be a good tool if you used correctly. Lets say if your in a 1 vs 1 situation and the stall fight is low and dirty, and your nose is gonna give up on ya, i would hit that Elevator key to pull her out before i take a swim.. Ive used it alot more frequently back in the days, back lately ive gotten real lazy and i can only work so many fingers at once

But like i said, i found it alot more usefull in the getting out of trouble situations (Augering) ones. And you might be right Steve about getting a quick snapshot, but once you miss that snapshot your back to square one, low and slow. Plus there is another worry of spin stalling her, theres many measures to take into consideration, but it can be worth it

F4UDOA · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2004, 09:43:58 AM »

Manual trim would be much simpler if we could adjust in degrees instead of a slider bar.

This way we could have a point of referance for each A/C for each speed range ie 200MPH, 300MPH etc. The way it was done IRL.

sonofagun · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2004, 10:35:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Blooz
Fly straight and level then center your joystick. If the plane is slowly climbing or diving adjust the trim to make it fly level. Do the same with roll and yaw. If your plane is "clean" there will be little adjustment normally. if your plane is heavy with bombs rockets and fuel, more adjustment will be necessary (after you fire those weapons you'll need to re- adjust). If you have battle damage like a lost wingtip or elevator you can use the trim to help to keep the plane flying in a straight line.

Use your dashboard gauges to help you keep the plane straight. The "stick and ball" will indicate roll and yaw while the climb/dive indicator will give indication of, well, climb and dive.

In normal use the ailerons and elevator trim just need to be centered or close, the rudder will be the one you play with most as the plane loses weight from ammo and fuel and changes in altitude.

Or hit "X" to do all the above. It'll auto trim straight and level. Hit "X" again to return to manual trim and your level trim settings are saved.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2004, 07:20:05 AM »

I usually stick with Combat Trim unless the situation requires otherwise. I'll switch to manual trim in very slow vertical maneuvers and when I need control at very fast speeds. Otherwise I tend to let CT do the busy work.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Kweassa · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2004, 12:21:45 PM »

In some planes, or in some situations, Combat Trim can be quite annoying.

For instance, typically in planes which use a lot of vertical maneuvers, CT tends to fubar low-speed control and increase the risk of the dreaded AH-style, inverted-"fall on your back"-spin.

It's because the combat trim automatically trims your plane to maintain level flight according to speed - the system assumes you want to fly level, and trims it accordingly.

The result is, when going straight vertical, your speed keeps on dropping. Since the CT assumes that you are flying level, it keeps pushing the elevator trim upwards. The result is, by the time you are soaring up, the CT maxed the elvator trim upwards, and your plane keeps want to nose over into a loop.

What's worse, is when you deny going into a loop in that state, and keep your plane zooming straight upwards, by the time you reach about 30~50mph the plane becomes uncontrollable. It falls over to its side diagonally; the speed is so low, that the torque pushes the plane sideways during the stall-reverse phase - the result is, your plane refuses to nose down, and starts to "flutter" straight down either on its back, or on its belly.

In this situation, you have to push the stick forward to send the nose down to recover - and CT comes back with a revenge, denying your stick forward input.

...

An opposite effect, is during dives.

When you dive and gain speed quickly, the CT again, assumes that you want to fly level.

The speed of the plane increases - the CT assumes you are flying level - such high speed will urge the plane to pitch up and climb - so, it trims the elevator downwards.

Then you gain more speed, and then CT pushes the elevator trim downwards even more.

Before I got used to manual trimming, the CT caused me a lot of deaths in the 109 - I chase a target on deck alt, push the stick forward to gain a bit of speed, and then suddenly, the nose abruptly pitches downwards and the controls lock! I auger to the ground...!! All because of the CT.

...

The good thing about CT, is that you can turn it on/off. When you turn it on, it immediately trims your plane for level flight at current speeds - so, it's possible to sort of use a semi-manual control.

If the speed doesn't change much, you can just trim the plane manually - but when in the heat of the battle, you can just push the CT key twice to turn it on, and then immediately off again. It immediately corrects the trim for level flight at that speed - and you can fine tune it a little bit from there.