Author Topic: Make Gunnery server side only.  (Read 444 times)

Offline lasersailor184

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Make Gunnery server side only.
« on: February 29, 2004, 05:12:16 PM »
It just occured to me.  People with slower connections are at an extreme advantage in gunnery like in a gun turret.  

By the time you've jinked out of the gun fire, they could still be easily firing at you in the old position.



I noticed this when I try to cut under someone's fire.  I still get 1-2 seconds of ping hits even when i'm under the bullets that are being reported to me.




This definately needs to be changed.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Make Gunnery server side only.
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2004, 07:15:37 PM »
That would explain why I often seem to get shot down  by planes that in order to hit me would have to be shootiing at impossable angles.
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Offline Furious

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Make Gunnery server side only.
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2004, 08:39:31 PM »
You would have absolutley no idea of where to aim.  

The enemy is almost never where you see him.  The enemy can never really ever be where you see him over the internet.

Offline lasersailor184

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Make Gunnery server side only.
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2004, 09:58:58 PM »
Well something needs to be done.


When I jink around gunfire that I can see, I don't want to be getting hit.  It doesn't make sense.
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Offline thrila

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Make Gunnery server side only.
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2004, 10:33:35 PM »
I don't agree, it works both ways.


On his FE he may see you d1.4 and think you are out of guns range so doesn't open fire.  However you are actualy d1.0 and proceed to light him up with hispano.  All this due to his slower connection.


Like i said, it works both ways.
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Offline nopoop

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Make Gunnery server side only.
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2004, 11:29:52 PM »
Won't  work any other way then the way it's done now. Net lag is something to learn. It is fairly constant if you have a connect that stays the same. If it doesn't it's something to think about. My ping times range from 260 to 320 and rarely waver.

Lag is different from where I came from WB. When I first came over I was always breaking late. Takes a month or so to get it down.

The ONLY way it will work is where hit's from your guns are taken your FE and hits from your opponents guns are taken from his FE.
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Offline BenDover

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Make Gunnery server side only.
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2004, 02:10:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by nopoop
The ONLY way it will work is where hit's from your guns are taken your FE and hits from your opponents guns are taken from his FE.


Isn't that the way it is now?

Offline Tilt

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Make Gunnery server side only.
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2004, 04:57:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BenDover
Isn't that the way it is now?


Yes........I believe so
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Offline Tarmac

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Make Gunnery server side only.
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2004, 06:24:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Well something needs to be done.


When I jink around gunfire that I can see, I don't want to be getting hit.  It doesn't make sense.


It's not that you jinked it.  It's that it took a second or so after your opponent hit you for you to hear the hits.

Offline Bullethead

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Make Gunnery server side only.
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2004, 08:46:25 PM »
LaserSailor-

I don't think you know very much about what you're asking, or you would never have mentioned it.  You obviously never flew AW or you'd know that whatever it's problems, client-side gunnery like in AH is so much better than server-side gunnery that it's like night and day.  Also, AFAIK, connection speed has no effect on what different players see.  But I'm less sure about that so I'll save it for later.  I'm absolutely certain about the problems of host-side gunnery, however, so I'll explain it first.

Server-side gunnery TOTALLY bites.  This is because it creates 3 different opinions on where you are compared to the target:  yours, the target's, and the host's.  And guess what?  Only the host's opinion counts.  But the host's opinion NEVER agrees with that of any player, because of the inevitable lag between host and FE.

The result is that the target is NEVER where you see it on your FE.  That's the ONLY thing you can be sure of.  So when you take a shot, you look at the target as you see it, and have to guess where the host thinks it is.  Normally, due to lag, the target is further along than you see it.  Thus, you have to lead WAY more than it looks like you need to.  Your lead has to double the amount of lag because now gunnery computations have to go 2 ways, PLUS whatever lead the deflection calls for.  So you put your bullets way out into empty space and it looks to you like a complete miss.  But if you're LUCKY, your bullets happen to intersect with where the host thinks the target is and so you get hits.  Conversely, if you see your tracer going right into the target as you see it, you can be certain you're missing because you know the host doesn't think the target's there.

Given this outline, you can easily see how other problems can arise from this system.  Blanks, for example, in zero-deflection shots.  There, lead doen't matter, but if the target's warpy and he's really elsewhere according to the host, you can't hit him at all.  What folks call "blanks" in AH is something else entirely and is nowhere near as bad, nor as common, as true blanks in server-side gunnery systems.  So all things considered, AH's system is way better than any host-side system can ever be.

Now, as to connection speed, AFAIK it has no effect on what folks see.  In peer-to-peer TCP/IP games, connection speed makes a huge difference.  And is a big advantage.  However, AH is client-server and the AH host, AFAIK, talks to everybody at the same speed.  This speed is slow enough not to tax dial-up players, and because it's equal for everybody, nobody's got an advantage or disadvantage based on connection speed.  Those with broadband just don't use much of their capacity when playing AH.  After all, it's just some numbers about positions and speeds that get exchanged--all the graphics are done on your FE.  It's amazing how little bandwidth it really takes to run a game like AH.