Author Topic: Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945  (Read 2560 times)

Offline Reschke

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7724
      • VF-17 "The Jolly Rogers"
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2004, 04:56:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ike 2K#
can we add the N1K2-J (perked) to "sub" for Ki-44 shoki?



Ike thanks for your suggestion. Nice model but the simple answer to it is no. As I stated in the opening post on this thread (after I got home last night and realized what I did) I edited it to reflect the mixup and posted my explanation. At some point in the future there will be a setup running with the Niki in it over the Solomons but it will not happen for a few more months on my watch in the CT.


Quote
Originally posted by artik
8-(
Once more PTO?????????

I think I've allready put a thread about it but looks it is too much.

Looks like WW2 was at PTO only.

Sorry, if it is not heard good for CT stuff - but you make people to leave CT. It is too much - you should review your vision on what CT setups should be. Looks like couple of guyes that think that WW2 was only war of USA filled CT with garbage. Sorry if I look not polite - but all things have their boundaries.

CM stuff, please take it easy, not all the best fighters and fights were done by USAAF and USN

I have to tell that is first time I write things like that - but enough is enough. CT was not done only for Americans.


Artik:
I appreciate your comments but I don't think you have seen what was playing out this week or what my first setup (btw I this is my third setup) was in January in the CT. I run Pacific setups because they generally do better than everyone anticipates they will be and I try to make the matchups something that will challenge both sides.

However the PTO isn't the only theater that gets represented in the CT. In fact I believe you had a setup or similar setup run January that was right up your alley with Egypt vs. Israel.
Buckshot
Reschke from March 2001 till tour 146
Founder and CO VF-17 Jolly Rogers September 2002 - December 2006
"I'm baaaaccccckkk!"

Offline Rafe35

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1426
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2004, 05:20:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by artik
8-(
Once more PTO?????????

I think I've allready put a thread about it but looks it is too much.

Looks like WW2 was at PTO only.
Sorry, if it is not heard good for CT stuff - but you make people to leave CT.
It is too much - you should review your vision on what CT setups should be.
Looks like couple of guyes that think that WW2 was only war of USA filled CT with garbage.
Sorry if I look not polite - but all things have their boundaries.

CM stuff, please take it easy, not all the best fighters and fights were done by USAAF and USN

I have to tell that is first time I write things like that - but enough is enough. CT was not done only for Americans.

:(
Alot people come to PTO more than ETO (from what i see) and I still don't like ETO setup very well, but there will more changes after AH2 and it should get alot better than before.
Rafe35
Former member of VF-17 "Jolly Rogers"

Offline Squire

  • Aces High CM Staff (Retired)
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7683
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2004, 05:23:01 PM »
The Ki-61 is competative vs the F4U-1 birdcage, it possesses good armament (2 x 20mm and 2 x 12.7s) excellent dive characterisitics, good acceleration, good E retention, climbs about as well, and easily out turns the F4U-1. It is slower, which is the main drawback.

The Ki-61 completely outclasses both the P-40E and the F4F in speed, climb, E retention and manueverbility.

The A6M5 also easily outclasses the F4F and P-40E, especially when flown to its strengths which is CLIMB RATE not TURN RATE.

..."Sub for a Ki-44", sub for an a/c that wasn't there?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2004, 05:41:28 PM by Squire »
Warloc
Friday Squad Ops CM Team
1841 Squadron Fleet Air Arm
Aces High since Tour 24

Offline Reschke

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7724
      • VF-17 "The Jolly Rogers"
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2004, 05:47:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
OM, They also have the F6F Hellcat which is fine and should be in the set and in any other 1943 sets.  The FM2 and the P38 should also be included.  Those three types were the definitive PTO aircraft on the Allied side.

But consider this,

 1943 Japan had the Ki-61 II KAI with the 1500 hp engine which allowed this type it's best performance.  we have the Ki-61 I KAIc.  Ok, so the best Tony is not available. next.

The Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate (Frank) with the Ha145 eng. was a near 400mph fighter that could turn.  Armament was the same as the tony.  IIRC this was a round engined Tony but I could be wrong.  

Also in 1943 The Nakajima Ki-44 Shoki (Tojo) was available.  This was a 375mph fighter with 4 12.7 Ho 103 mg.  The last variant which showed up in 1943 had the Ha 145 engine.  This is arguably the best army fighter the Japanese fielded.

Again in 1943 the Kawanishi N1K1-J Shinden (George) was available.  We have the improved N1K2-J available in AH.

Yet again 1943 the excellent Ki-45 Toryu, a 350 mph twin fighter with araments options up to  2 x 30mm & 2 x 20mm cannon in later versions.

Sadly, none of these are avilable in AH and for all intents and purposes never will be.  However I believe this should be sufficient reason to allow the George in any 1943 or later plane set.

Or as much I hate to suggest this, substitute something comparable to be a representative in order to fill the gap.  A mossie or 110 to sub for the Ki-45 and the La-5 for the Ki-84 even though the Frank was possibly superior to the La-5.


Here is my stanch on substitutions one more time Storch.

I don't like doing it and if I can get away with not having a substitution aircraft (La-7, La-5, Bf-110, Ju-88, etc...) I will not have a substitute in any of my setups. The only exception to that rule for me has been the recent Second Wind setup.

The P-38 to my knowledge wasn't in large enough numbers in the Guadalcanal area to be an impact aircraft and we have just had it for what 2-3 weeks now. The FM-2 can have an argument made for its inclusion but even at the urging my squadron mate (Phantom4-MAG33) I am leary of adding it to the planeset.

As for the Japanese aircraft that you mentioned in your post just how many of those aircraft that we have in AH were actually posted to the Japanese Army or Navy Air Fleet in the Guadalcanal/New Britain/New Guinea/New Ireland/Choiseul Island area? Please answer that for me if you can.

Again once more so you and everyone else is clear on this.

I will not substitute aircraft into a setup unless there is no other choice in the matter.


Thus ends my discussion here in this thread. If you anyone would like to discuss this with me further then drop me an email.

Thanks again and enjoy.
Buckshot
Reschke from March 2001 till tour 146
Founder and CO VF-17 Jolly Rogers September 2002 - December 2006
"I'm baaaaccccckkk!"

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2004, 05:54:13 PM »
You keep this up and he'll not play here. Oh wait. :D

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1452
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2004, 06:15:00 PM »
I am not sure why most players dont understand that the CT is a simple furball arena. Most players depart oposite fileds, meet in the middle and shoot it out untill death. Even with this type of fighting, most of the time the arena appaers to be balanced. The players really do call the shots, they just dont know it.

The CMs add/remove planes only if one completely dominates the other. If the players use a much faster airplane to turn fight a slower turn fighter and die, thats thier fault. Because this happens, the CMs will allow those planes to fight. Lets take the current plane set with the Bf109G-10. It is faster and can out accelerate anything when it gets in trouble and get away but it is still in there. The F4U-1 dominates the A6M5b but can not out accelerate it when it gets too slow but yet the axis players ***** about it. Again I refer to the stats on how the game is played. Right or wrong, its how the pilots fly them. The stats dont lie. In my last P-38 post the stats turned around but was still rather close. The pilots begain using it the way it should be used. In recent past PTO set-ups which included the F4U, it did not dominate due to the way it was being flown much like the P-38 and Bf109G-10. Here are the stats for December 2003. Although not flown much the final results were even.

F4U-1 has 56 Kills of A6M5b
A6M5b has 65 Kills of F4U-1

It doesnt matter who flew more sorties to get the kills, the kills are even.

July 2003:

F4U-1 has 54 Kills of A6M5b
A6M5b has 41 Kills of F4U-1

Sept 2003

F4U-1 has 61 Kills of A6M5b
A6M5b has 56 Kills of F4U-1

June 2003

F4U-1 has 12 Kills of A6M5b
A6M5b has 18 Kills of F4U-1

Even the F4U1-D had the same basic stats. The F4U dominates only in speed and firepower, once slow, its toast unlike the Bf109G-10 vs current allied planeset.

AS long as allied pilots give you axis guys a target, you just cant complain...the stats prove it.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2004, 06:38:28 PM by CurtissP-6EHawk »

Offline Grits

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5332
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2004, 06:18:01 PM »
I dont care if the Niki is in the set as I'll fly both sides as I always do, but it is not correct for the time period. The only IJN/IJA fighters at Rabaul at the time were the A6M5 and the Ki61, plain and simple and that is all they should have. If you add the Niki, then you have to allow the F4U-1D which is not right for the time covered. As mentioned above the Ki61 is a very capable aircraft and should not me brushed aside so quickly.

Having said that, there have been many times when aircraft improper for the time period covered by a set have been included, like the Tiffie (a '44 model) in the '42 BoB, and the G10 (fall '44) in the current spring '44 set. These have been (argueably) non-tragedy's and have not severly upset balance, but I am not for adding something just because one side has a bit of an edge. The scenarios should[/i] IMO have some levels of imbalance if they are to be accurate.

Having said that (pt 2), I am not against subing a model for something we dont have provided they are very similar in performance (La7 for Ki100 or 110/Mossie for a Ki45) and the plane they are to represent is correct for the time period the set covers. This set should NOT have any subs, the A6M5 and Ki61 are the only ones the IJN/IJA should have.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2004, 06:21:20 PM by Grits »

Offline TheBug

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5652
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2004, 06:41:10 PM »
Is it gonna happen??  Is it gonna stay the setup that Warloc posted?  Only two more days till we find out... ohh I'm so gitty I can't wait for Friday.


Not that you'll take it for much, but Reschke.  It is a good "Combat Theater"  historical setup and thanks for seeing it through.
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
  -Richard O'Kane

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2004, 07:51:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheBug
... ohh I'm so gitty I can't wait for Friday.


Are you giddy as well? :D

Offline Shane

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7648
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2004, 09:08:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by gear
new allied plane making it's maiden flight in this setup:aok


i need your email and password...


;)
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline TheBug

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5652
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2004, 09:17:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Are you giddy as well? :D



Thanks for taking the time to point out my spelling mistake Arlo

Now I see really deep down you're a nicer guy than you pretend to be.  

TheBug :aok

P.S.  Don't worry, size isn't everything.
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
  -Richard O'Kane

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2004, 09:51:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheBug

P.S.  Don't worry, size isn't everything.


I'm glad you came to terms. :D :aok

Offline Löwe

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 821
      • http://www.geocities.com/duxfordeagles
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2004, 02:23:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
Allied types and CT Staffers.  

The IJN/IJAAF is lacking in equipment.  Is it not?  

Most of the inventory on the allied side easily outperforms anything in in the Japanese inventory.  Do they not?  

So let's see what kind of set up we have.  

With the exception of the F4F which will most likely not be flown everything on the Allied side out runs, out guns and out dives everything on the IJ side.  The IJ side has weapons that can climb and turn.  Is this not so?  

The only aircraft that even begins to offer some form of legitimate competition to the allied planes is the the George.  

Want a constructive opinion?  Fine.  It seems to me and others, not just Jg3 members BTW That there is an element in the CT that doesn't want opposition.  This element wants targets.  

Why would you remove the only true contender from the IJ plane set?  

Irrespective of what you ultimately put up I will spend some time in the CT as will most of the usual CT players.  Why not attempt to make it fun for all?  

Give the Axis players an opportunity to offer some real challenge.  You allied types already hold all the cards even with the George in the set.


Whine:lol

Offline Löwe

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 821
      • http://www.geocities.com/duxfordeagles
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2004, 02:25:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
OM, They also have the F6F Hellcat which is fine and should be in the set and in any other 1943 sets.  The FM2 and the P38 should also be included.  Those three types were the definitive PTO aircraft on the Allied side.

But consider this,

 1943 Japan had the Ki-61 II KAI with the 1500 hp engine which allowed this type it's best performance.  we have the Ki-61 I KAIc.  Ok, so the best Tony is not available. next.

The Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate (Frank) with the Ha145 eng. was a near 400mph fighter that could turn.  Armament was the same as the tony.  IIRC this was a round engined Tony but I could be wrong.  

Also in 1943 The Nakajima Ki-44 Shoki (Tojo) was available.  This was a 375mph fighter with 4 12.7 Ho 103 mg.  The last variant which showed up in 1943 had the Ha 145 engine.  This is arguably the best army fighter the Japanese fielded.

Again in 1943 the Kawanishi N1K1-J Shinden (George) was available.  We have the improved N1K2-J available in AH.

Yet again 1943 the excellent Ki-45 Toryu, a 350 mph twin fighter with araments options up to  2 x 30mm & 2 x 20mm cannon in later versions.

Sadly, none of these are avilable in AH and for all intents and purposes never will be.  However I believe this should be sufficient reason to allow the George in any 1943 or later plane set.

Or as much I hate to suggest this, substitute something comparable to be a representative in order to fill the gap.  A mossie or 110 to sub for the Ki-45 and the La-5 for the Ki-84 even though the Frank was possibly superior to the La-5.


WHAAAAAAAAAAA

Offline artik

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1908
      • Blog
Coming March 12th: Northern Solomons Campaign Oct 1943 - May 1945
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2004, 02:30:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rafe35
Alot people come to PTO more than ETO (from what i see) and I still don't like ETO setup very well, but there will more changes after AH2 and it should get alot better than before.


So..... does it means lets forget ETO, BoB, North Africa, Eastern Front and fly PTO only.

Sorry buddy but it is too much for me.

  • Second Wind - PTO
  • Guadalcanal - PTO
  • Grease
  • Black Sheep - PTO
  • Europe 1944
  • Northen Solomons - PTO


Looks like CT is PTO Theatre...............
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel