Author Topic: we want b-29!!!!!!!!  (Read 1906 times)

Offline Pongo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6701
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2004, 11:32:18 AM »
What are you babbling about. The B29 is not a korean war plane. 1000s of them flew in ww2 and they were operational before DDay. I say bring on the F8F and the F7F as well. No other reason required then they are cool WW2 planes.

Offline Sakai

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1041
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2004, 11:45:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
What are you babbling about. The B29 is not a korean war plane. 1000s of them flew in ww2 and they were operational before DDay. I say bring on the F8F and the F7F as well. No other reason required then they are cool WW2 planes.


Oh yeah, Billy the rocket plane Capt. and his special friend Mr. Bomber boy need a new plane.  

Why?  

Because it will enhance aerial combat in the MA?

No.

Because it adds more than any other plane identified to special events, dueling, and the Combat Theatre?

No.

Because in a rolling planeset such as teh envisioned TOD there is a gaping hole for heavy Allied Bombers?

No.

Because "I want one", that's why.

What astute logic.  I marvel at the simian perspicacity of these fellows. "It's the most needed" because I say so.

The B-29 is a fantastic plane, certainly.  But in the MA it would not be used in the manner in which it was employed against Japan.  It's bombload would be far out of proportion to what was useful due to the constraints of fuel requirements in the actual war.  And let us be honest, many of our credibility challenged brethren in arms want one for a nuclear option.

The logical fallacy of the need for a nuke has been enunciated previously.  But will be posted here to remind all of what is lost when the B-29 with nukes enters the fray:

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69895&highlight=Stupidity

and:

Basically, the A-bomb represented the end of the romance of air warfare. The idea of dogfighting, while still germane to pilots, really only exists in the days prior to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki incidents. Given also that the arenas are too small for the use of such, you're basically talking about altering the world of AH for 2 seconds of pre-pubescent ridiculousness that has nothing in common in any real way with aerial combat. The impact of one man in a 29 outstrips anything that we all profess to love when we get excited about a P-40, 190, Spitfire, etc. It is therefore not relevant to this game.

If we had a B-29/A-bomb equipped arena, I'd like these to be the last two additions to the game, after the Gloster gladiator, Cr32, CR42, Fiat Br20, Mig-3, Ju-52, Me-410, Henschel 123, LaGG-3, P-39/P-400, I-16, Ki-84, Do-17, Wellington, PBY, B-25, Cant Herone, Sunderland, Heinkell 115, He-111, P108, SM 79, Z1007, Brewster, Finnish Myrsky, Dewoitine, Petoz, Fiesler Storch, Taylor L-5, Dutch Fokkers, Helldiver, Baltimore, Grace, Betty, Nell, Lilly, Sally, Ann, Manchester, Kingfisher, Hudson, Blenheim, Stirling, Saetta, etc., etc., after every other plane, fine.

Make the B-29 and A bomb well after all relevant ground vehicles and some just for fun have been introduced, make it after artillery and infantry, Japanese Destroyers, German VIICs (U-Boootwaffen), Italian transport planes, English armor, merchant ships for supply operations, Russian rocket launchers, and assorted coastal patrol craft of all nationalities mounting open 3"-5" guns and various caliber MG.

Model the B-29 only after love is gone, romance is dead, Chivalry slain, comaraderie forsaken, and all hope is lost, for that is what the A-bomb stands for.

In fact, only model it to have a perpetual A-Bomb Arena with sides having a bunch of extremely large cities defended by 163s, Salamanders, F8s, F7s, and 262s and B-29s and A-bombs. Play to your hearts' content, but not until the CR42 and Brewster Buffalo have had their say, and one man versus one man in honorable combat has been played to its death knell. Something which obviates the A-bomb entirely, since that knell has not tolled, as we still pine for it as evidenced by our participation here.

Thanks for the thread,

Yours,

Sakai
« Last Edit: March 12, 2004, 12:32:18 PM by Sakai »
"The P-40B does all the work for you . . ."

Offline frank3

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9352
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2004, 12:15:55 PM »
I'm with Sakai :)

Offline Waffle

  • HTC Staff Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4849
      • HiTech Creations Inc. Aces High
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2004, 12:54:35 PM »
Originally posted by Pongo
Quote
What are you babbling about. The B29 is not a korean war plane.
 

B29 flew in Korea as well as WWII.



Originally posted by Pongo
Quote
1000s of them flew in ww2 and they were operational before DDay.


OK - little history....the 58th Bomber Wing was formed in Marietta, Georgia in June of 1943. As far as being "operational" before D-day, they were training missions and setting up / moving to bases in Marrakech and India. ONE time Before DDAY did a b29 see combat...when it was attacked by by ki-43s while ferrying FUEL..not bombs to China.  

What day was DDay? June 6, 1944....The first bombing raid into Japan with b29s occured around June 15th 1944. 75 were scheduled for the mission. Only 68 made it to target.


As fars as the "1000's" of B29s that flew in WW2...only a little more than 2700 were actualy produced by Boeing...this is also including production counted after WW2. There were roughtly 1000 or less made by a few other manufacturing plants.

Oh yeah - 2 more History stops on this bus trip......for homework.

Go reasearch "Operation Matterhorn" - a failure for the 300 or so(not 1000s) b29s in service in China / India

Also check out the  "Battle of Kansas" This is most likely where the "thousands" of B29s saw service.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2004, 01:01:49 PM by Waffle »

Offline Halo

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3222
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2004, 01:34:42 PM »
The F7F Tigercat and F8F Bearcat were too late for WWII.  

As for impact in Aces High, the B-29 would be a faster Lanc with heavier defensive armament.  Not an insurmountable problem.

As for nukes, a separate issue, maybe one per side per map change for only highest perk achiever.  After all, only two were dropped in WWII, and none since then.  

Wouldn't do at all to ruin Aces High with rains of nukes.  Most the damage to Japan was from other bombing, not just the nukes.  

No target in Aces High except maybe country headquarters would be worth a nuke.  

Even then, political sensitivities might make nukes the ruination of Aces High.  Fascinating as cyber nukes might be, if I were HiTech & Co. I would never allow nukes in Aces High.

I would add the B-29, however, along with the many other worthwhile nominees ever since this bulletin board began.  

Meanwhile, I applaud Aces High for the ride choices so far and wish somehow we could get regular new rides more frequently the way we used to.  More early and mid war rides certainly would enhance the great Combat Theater scenarios.
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. (Seneca, 1st century AD, et al)
Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty. (Anne Herbert, 1982, Sausalito, CA)
Paramedic to Perkaholics Anonymous

Offline Overlag

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3888
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2004, 09:40:07 PM »
tallboy bombs for lancasters should be made before b29s.......... :aok
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
This post has a Krusty rating of 37

Offline Pongo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6701
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2004, 07:40:41 PM »
Waffle. you could have saved some time and just said that I am right instead of listing how I am right.

Probably the first time that someone has argued a point by listing the evidence against his own side of the argument.

It was in combat befor D Day. There where thousands of them in service in ww2.
Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2004, 08:20:15 PM by Pongo »

Offline Jester

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2753
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2004, 11:12:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sakai
Model the B-29 only after love is gone, romance is dead, Chivalry slain, comaraderie forsaken, and all hope is lost, for that is what the A-bomb stands for.


Sakai,
I think that many of those Veterans that were not killed or mamed during the planned Invasion of Japan and got to return home to live their loved ones and continue their lives after a war none of them started would tend to disagree with you a bit.

More than likely, the cost to Japan also would have been VERY MANY TIMES worse had the Allies went through with the invasion and had to take the country by force (along with a Soviet Invasion). Japan as a nation could very well have been destroyed forever and damn sure wouldn't recover to what it is today.

Just something to think about....

FTR: I agree with you - the A-Bomb has no place in this or any other game. Way too serious and solem a moment in history - for every side involved. Right up there with putting Concentration Camps in the game for "background".
« Last Edit: March 13, 2004, 11:15:23 PM by Jester »
Lt. JESTER
VF-10 "GRIM REAPERS"

WEBSITE:  www.VF10.org

Offline Rasker

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1265
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2004, 02:44:51 AM »
Speaking of war atrocities, does anyone else find it offensive that we have to strafe down a church and a farm to capture a base?.  Why not make the church a Communazi HQ and the farm a sturmtrooper barracks? :)

Offline Pongo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6701
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2004, 06:40:29 PM »
Shame to leave out the B29 because it hurts peoples feelings.
Is there a major weapon in WW2 that will not hurt peoples feelings?

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2004, 07:01:16 PM »
I would like to see the B-29A in AH2, but no nuclear bombs.

The thing, to me, that argues against the B-29A is the amount of work for SUPERFLY/NATEDOG on this one airplane.  It is huge and would take a lot of work when compared with smaller bombers and fighters.

As to the nuke, well, that is not going to happen as I understand it.  I recall HiTech or Pyro stating that the largest bomb in AH was going to remain the 4,000lber.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline hawker238

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1563
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2004, 07:03:05 PM »
Very nice Sakai, start off by damning his opinions, then come out with some emotional BS about how the B-29 is a travesty to warfare.

I don't care for the A bomb, since it is a little ridiculous, but the plane served in great numbers and with significant impact in the war.  Building off what Pongo said, why not remove the Stuka since it was so prevalent in the brutal attack on Poland?  The Lancaster since it bombed German cities?

Offline Sakai

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1041
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2004, 03:02:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jester
Sakai,
I think that many of those Veterans that were not killed or mamed during the planned Invasion of Japan and got to return home to live their loved ones and continue their lives after a war none of them started would tend to disagree with you a bit.

More than likely, the cost to Japan also would have been VERY MANY TIMES worse had the Allies went through with the invasion and had to take the country by force (along with a Soviet Invasion). Japan as a nation could very well have been destroyed forever and damn sure wouldn't recover to what it is today.

Just something to think about....

FTR: I agree with you - the A-Bomb has no place in this or any other game. Way too serious and solem a moment in history - for every side involved. Right up there with putting Concentration Camps in the game for "background".


Right, but then, I am not arguing about the use of the bomb in WWII, I am agreeing it's ridiculous for this game.

Sakai
"The P-40B does all the work for you . . ."

Offline Pongo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6701
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2004, 03:02:55 AM »

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24760
we want b-29!!!!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2004, 05:48:34 AM »
Skuzzy has assured me that Pyro has assured him that HT has assured him that the entire SCW planeset will be modeled before the B-29 so I'm good with this. There ya go. :D