Spanish Election

[straffo]

In fact lot of poster here seem to thing that the spanish will stop doing their share against terrorism.

I think it's wrong even with a socialist governement they fought and will still fight terrorism.

And this is the particuliar point I disagree with.

By changing their governement they expressed their tough.
But socialist or not a governement is generally  trying to protect his own citizen , this one will choose to do it using a different approach but it will still fight.

[Torque]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Your lack of knowledge regarding historical events between 1990 and today is evident in your posts.

Yes Rip and America has never supported or trained or harboured terrorists. LaRf!

Reagan and the SOA was all a myth, right?

Then again i see by your design you should have no problems with Chile violating American soil and taking Kissenger away.

[mosgood]

Unfortunately, I think you are right.... but i don't think it's true though... but I'm sure the terrorist will....

From what I have read, it doesn't seem that that was the only reason for why the elections turned out the wat they did though. My impression is that it was more about how the Government handled the terrorist attacks than about the terrorist attacks in it's self.

and Fortunately, it doesn't mean that it's gonna happen again. If problems get worse because of this, the world will just have to "live and learn". It won't be the first mistake (or the last) a country makes that effects the rest of the world.

I believe in democracy and I support the people of Spain's right to run their country how they see fit.
]

Originally posted by slimm50
...except for that last sentence, what did you say????

Sorry if it was a little fragmented...

The first paragraph was an answer to the original thread.

What I ment in the 2nd paragraph was that I'm under the impression that how the spanish government handled the attacks is the dominent reason for the way the vote went.


When I said "and Fortunately, it doesn't mean that it's gonna happen again. "  I am saying that every situation calls for another choice to be made, and even "if" Spain DID vote in reaction to the terrorist attack, it doesn't mean that the next time there's an attack, it will be the same outcome.


LOL  after all that, i guess I really did leave a lot out

[Maverick]

I am sad to say that I really don't know about the political climate in Spain before the bombing. Given that situation, that I think almost all American's posting on this bbs are in, It is hard to comment on a factual status of the outcome of the election.

From what most Americans are seeing in their press the impression is given that the Spanish have caved in to the desires of the terrorists. Right or wrong, that seems to be the thinking of the press and certainly the conclusion of those whose information is supplied by the press. A lack of information regarding the Spanish political issues other than the objections towards Bush / US limits a real understanding of what MAY have been occuring.

I think the insight by Cyrano is valuable as he has brought differing information other than what I have seen in the paper. There is very little pre bombing information in the paper to allow the average American reader to guage an accurate result of the political impact of the bombing.

Unfortunately what IS being printed indicates,to a casual reader, that the entire election was impacted by the bombing and it skewed the results to one favoring ther terrorists position. This impression followed by quotes from the Spanish PM saying they will pull troops out by the June deadline tend to confirm the conclusion.

The feeling is that if this attack could (or did) change an entire countries foriegn policy then it lends credence to terror actions as an effective political tool and encourages further attacks to weaken the "enemy" of the terrorists. If attacks on the civilian populace of a country can so quickly bring that nation to the bidding of the terrorists what reason is there to stop doing so.

Perhaps this situation flies in the face of the Euro common opinions but it is none the less the picture being generated in the US by incomplete knowledge and possibly coverage. Each side of the ocean has their own bias towards their owen side of the pond. The news is geared towards the main concern of the residents of the country. Example, the Spanish are certainly more concerned with events in their own borders and closer to them than on the other side of the globe. This means they get more coverage of regionally local events  than does any US paper.

At least that is my impression of it. Your opinion may be different and likely is depending on how much you knew prior to the bombing.

[CyranoAH]

Thanks Mav, I really needed to read a post such as yours

[pwnorris]

Originally posted by Habu
The Spanish election sends a strong message to terrorists: if you think we're going to back down in the face of your attacks ... well, you got us. We'll back down.

I tend to agree with this.  Whatever the message the Spanish voters send to their government the terrorists will feel that they have influenced a democracies election.  

Expect more violence.   The terrorists will try one or more attacks in the attempt to influence more elections.  If another country changes its votes based on these attacks, then there will be more violence.

I would expect that AQ will attempt to stage another 9/11 in this country as the presidential elections draw near.  Think about it.  If they can get a president who go soft on terrorism, then they have won.  That may be what they are thinking.  

To the terrorists we Americans, and possibly the Europeans as well, are nothing but spineless weenies who will cave in if we see blood.  

There are, in the end, only two things that will stop them.  1) death (or worse, damnation) or 2) conversion.  In either case, Europe and American need to be strong in the face of terrorism.  Spain may have sent the terrorists the message that they are weak.  As I said earlier, expect more violence.

[mauser]

Maverick,

I've been starting to feel the same way about news coverage here.  All of them seem to have painted the election results as Spain caving in to Al Queda.  However from Pepe and Cyrano there seems to be more to the story.  I don't know where to get my news from anymore without the typical editorial commentary mixed in.  It's supposed to be news right? Not news-n-conjecture, or processed-news-product-marketed-as-news.  

mauser

[Naso]

Finally someone is starting to see the light !!!



Mav and Mauser.

[Dowding]

Those two locked threads were disgusting. And eye-opening as to the true colours of certain individuals posting in them. Had those bombs been in Los Angeles and had those comments been made against American people, then the sky would have fallen in I'm sure.

It seems many Americans on here don't want to consider the political wranglings inside Spain that both predated and precipated the bombings and the election result. The previous President was a lame duck and had no support. The 'blame ETA at all costs' memos were what sunk his party. It was a scandal and the people reacted to it.

Spanish elections a victory for Al Queda? The Iraq war was a victory for Al Queda. It increased their membership, allowed them to kill Americans again, paint America as the imperialistic invader and now insinuate its influence into Spanish politics. By luck or by strategy they've done remarkably well.

[Eagler]

aren't their similiar views in England/euro/Spain even of the bombing and election outcome?

Media here are reporting some newspaper(s)? in Spain sounding like a mini grunz, is this not correct?

[Dowding]

I haven't read any newspapers for a week or more. But I was talking to my cousin and her husband about the Iraq war at Christmas and they talked at length about Aznar and the problems he and his party were facing. I also talked to my cousin this weekend to see how she was. Her works in Madrid occaisionally.

edit: my cousin teaches english in spain and married a spaniard in case my post doesn't make much sense

[-sudz-]

Channel 366 on DirectTV, if you get it, runs news shows from around the world.  It helps to keep the spin from American news  from getting out of hand.  However, don't expect to find the holy grail of truly unbiased reporting.

The station is officially called News International.

- Sudz

[mosgood]

ya...I would also like to find (if possible) an internet based news source that doesn't have the standard americanized filters.  Would be interesting....

[pwnorris]

Some of us are concerned about how the Europeans view the election results in Spain.  I agree that it is a different perspective than here in the US.  But let's not forget that there are others whose perspective we need to be aware of.  That's the terrorists.  If they can influence the election in Spain do you think it is a possibility to try and influence the elections in the US, Britain, and other countries support us?

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Dowding
The Iraq war was a victory for Al Queda. It increased their membership, allowed them to kill Americans again, paint America as the imperialistic invader and now insinuate its influence into Spanish politics. By luck or by strategy they've done remarkably well.

9/11 was a much better recruitment tool for AQ than Iraq was.  Besides, we were already "hated" by any fanatical religious muslim groups.

You don't have numbers showing increased AQ membership, but I can give you sources that AQ membership declined thanks to our U.S. forces.

Are you implying that they need more of a reason to hate us? And Iraq was it?  again...

If anything, going into Iraq helped mass the crazy-wanna-be AQ fighters in a nice tight group where we could find them all in one location.  The U.S. presence in the middle east is like throwing **** on a fly pile.  Excellent tactic to not only to draw all the nut cases away from our shores and put them all in one area to eliminate methodically, but clean up Iraq and its harbored terrorist camps in the north and let the other rogue countries know that "A neighborhood Block watch is now in effect"