Author Topic: Bin Laden almost killed (Read 2384 times)

Dowding · « **Reply #30 on:** March 18, 2004, 02:51:02 PM »

I stand corrected.

Please continue to take credit for an event that happened 60 years before you were born, and continue to bash other people who were born 60 years after said event for their similar temporally restricted non-participation.

I wonder why I didn't see the logic of that before.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #31 on:** March 18, 2004, 02:52:36 PM »

I dont take credit for it. Isaid that qite clearly. I use the term "we: as acceptance of my cultural heritage, good and bad. Not to take credit for it.

Since you are a european left leaning type I understand how this concept of accepting your cultural heritage is foreign to you.

straffo · « **Reply #32 on:** March 18, 2004, 02:52:59 PM »

We were NEVER allied with the German.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #33 on:** March 18, 2004, 02:54:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by straffo
We were NEVER allied with the German.

Riiight...

Exactly how many allied soldiers were killed by Vichy troops?

How mnay allied airmen were given over to be killed Japanese by the french colinial authorities in vietnam?

You see why its so dangerous to be in denial about your nations history and not accept it all, good and bad? It leads to all sorts of confusins and denials..

Thanks for the fine illustration straffo.

Dowding · « **Reply #34 on:** March 18, 2004, 02:55:46 PM »

Don't take credit for it? You'll have to remove the medals from your swelling chest to convince me of that one.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #35 on:** March 18, 2004, 02:58:33 PM »

To me "we" is synonymous to my country my culture and I accept whatever we did good and bad, its part of of who we are.

Dont you take pride in Nelson? Or Churchill? Arent you perhaps ashamed by your treament of India? Dont you accep those things as part of your culture as a brit as part of who you are and how you live?

I understand that euros dont comprehend that concept, but I'm trying to explain as best I can.

JB73 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 18, 2004, 02:59:34 PM »

well this sure is a train wreck i have started.

deSelys · « **Reply #37 on:** March 18, 2004, 03:04:31 PM »

Ok let's do this methodically

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So on one hand I cant ask frencxh to be greatful fro US help in WW2 - because thats in the past.

You weren't really asking...

Quote

But on the other hand I cant be a real american because I come from a country whose government was allied in the past with US enemies.

I never said that you couldn't be a real american. I also said that I've never held someone accountable for the actions (or the lack of) of his forefathers. What I said is that you've absolutely nothing in common with the americans of WWII and no right to talk about it by using 'we'. I rest my case.

Quote

And lets be clear abou that my euro friend. The croatian puppet govt was allied with germany. But there were huge nunbers of croiatian partisans fighting for the allies.

Yep. Communists led by Tito. Do I need to look up on this BBS what you think about communists?

Quote

The french puppet government was allied with germany. But there were huge numbers of partisans too.

Agreed.

Quote

The French were "marching" with the enemy too.

At least France fought before surrendering.

Quote

From this page

Before seeing a single German soldier, the Serbian-led army withdrew from Slovenia and Croatia to defend Serbia, leaving the Croatians and Slovenes without supplies or ammunition. Most Croatian soldiers simply went home. The Yugoslav military disintegrated at first sight of the Germans as 100 of 135 generals in the top-heavy Serbian officer corps surrendered during the first week. Belgrad was taken by a single platoon of Waffen-SS shock troops led by a second lieutenant on April 12. As General Simovic and his government fled the country with millions in gold, only the Croatian Peasant Party minister Vladko Macek stayed to share the fate of his people.

I find it rather funny that you are always bashing France for his low valour on the battlefield....

Quote

...
I accept all the good and bad of my cultural hitory. Just gecause I wasnt around it doesnt mean that it didnt happend and it isnt a part of my cultural background.

Ok with that

Quote

You say that you are proud and patriotic, yet you dont grasp that simple concept. I guess you are only proud and patriotic for what your country has done in your life, what would that be making chocholates?

Once again...bad guess and poor humor...

Quote

So for example going by your critreria no european can claim pride in old history of euro tradiotions, no beethoven, no cathedrals, no fine architecturre, no mozart, not chaikovsky, no michalengelo, or davinci, or gutenburg, or shakespeare or any of thast. Because none of you were alive then...

Claiming pride in it? No. I only claim pride in my actions (and, I'm guilty, in those of my kids

). Showing respect for what those people have done, and trying to pass this knowledge to the younger? Oh yes.

I hope that you've got my point now.

straffo · « **Reply #38 on:** March 18, 2004, 03:06:31 PM »

How many French troops where killed by allied troops ?

How many US planes (paid) where never delivered to France ?

How many French soldier were killed when some americans where making money with the German in 1939 1940 ?

Where were the American in 1939 1940 1941?

The English were here.
The Canadian were here.
The Belgian were here.
The Poles were here.
The South Afrikan were here.
The Australian were here.
the list is almost endless.

And you ?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #39 on:** March 18, 2004, 03:11:07 PM »

Croatia has an affinity with germany going back to austrohungarian days, "we" mostly (the evil word) welcomedc them as liberators from (as your little article nicely illustrates) serbian domination of Yugolsavia.

Of course partisans formed out of communists and of patriots who realized nazi germany was no friend very quickly.

Tito was a communist and he was leading partisans in oppostion to nazis.

I am opposed to communism very much. But I have no problem accepting it as part of my past, heck I was a little communist pioneeer as a child.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #40 on:** March 18, 2004, 03:13:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by straffo
How many French troops where killed by allied troops ?

How many US planes (paid) where never delivered to France ?

How many French soldier were killed when some americans where making money with the German in 1939 1940 ?

Where were the American in 1939 1940 1941?

The English were here.
The Canadian were here.
The Belgian were here.
The Poles were here.
The South Afrikan were here.
The Australian were here.
the list is almost endless.

And you ?

So it was US fault that france lost in a few weeks ands allied iteslf with germany for the next few years.

Where were the americans? The population was weak and indeciseve and the political leadership couldnt push them to go help thair allies in a time of need. I really tot you euros would like that kind of stuff, I guess not when yiu are asking for support...

Check!

Anyway straffo does any of that cahnge the fcat that Vichy france was allied with the nazis? And that vichy france fought against allies? Or that vichy fleet had to be sunk with french crews on board? It doesnt. You know it. I know it. So just accept it, it was a drak period in your nations history as it was for many nations. For many people and for many families and for mnay communities. We have to accept it.

straffo · « **Reply #41 on:** March 18, 2004, 03:15:09 PM »

About that aimen story in indochine I have to add one thing : the french troops in here were so weak they got an exterme hard time facing Thaillande.

How can you expect them to resist the Japaneses when the Japanese were still able to resiste the US troops ?

straffo · « **Reply #42 on:** March 18, 2004, 03:16:49 PM »

va te faire...

deSelys · « **Reply #43 on:** March 18, 2004, 03:23:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by straffo
va te faire...

Straffo

The saddest thing is that I wasted my flying time tonight trying to explain to some 2 digit IQ warmonger armchair general* that he should adopt a low profile

... How well, Rome wasn't built in a day.

* Personal Attacktm

Maniac · « **Reply #44 on:** March 18, 2004, 03:27:03 PM »

Grunhertz.

Why dont you enlist in the army?