Electric guitar and amp

[SirLoin]

Fender Squire is prolly a very good choice for a begginer....Amps,anything under 50 watts(solid state..don't buy into tubes,let him learn some first)..Great small SS amps are made by Crate,Peavy..Fender and Marshall are slightly more and have better resale for when he's ready to trade for a tube amp.

Those amps should have a good built in distortion so additional effects pedals aren't necessary as they will only distract him from learning..(Effects pedals have the effect of making you sound way better than you are..I suk without my Boss GT-6....)

It's a great way for a kid to make new friends if he gets into jamming..And I swear you learn more about relationships trying to get a band going than trying to keep a girlfriend..

And there is nothing cooler than walking down the school hall with a guitar case.!:cool:

Sounds like he's a lucky kid!

[jigsaw]

Originally posted by Cougar68
Acoustics are much harder on the fingers and some people tend to quit before they get the callouses developed because it just hurts after you play.  Plus there's a HUGE difference between cheap acoustics and good ones.
Cougar

Good points. I had no fingerprints for a long time when I was starting out. My first guitar was an Alvarez. Never knew how much it cost as it was a gift from my dad.

The last couple of acoustics I bought are perfect examples of the difference in cost vs sound. Got a cheapy Ovation the day before a show in order to pull of an acoustic set the singer and I had worked up. Thing sounds like playing a lead box. The last one I bought was a custom balladeer. Sounds nice, looks beautiful, for a mid range guitar.

That roland amp mentioned earlier looks like an interesting item. Next time I'm around the music store I want to play with one.

Just for a comparison of of wattage, the last head I had was a Marshall JCM 800 50w. Never turned it up over 2 when playing out. Very few people I've played with used anything over 50w on the road. The guys with the 100w heads used to complain that they didn't cut through the PA. Reason being, they couldn't turn up the volume enough to make the tubes cook for a good tone. Tom Sholz came out with a thing called a "Power Soak" just for that reason. It was something like a big resistor you could put between the head and the cabinet so you could turn the head to full volume but buffer how much sound came out of the speakers.

Was in the studio once trying to get my tone dailed in for the room when one of the engineers wheels out this old Orange 20w (maybe 30w?) head and cab. That thing blew away any 100w head I'd seen.

Ok, enough rambling and history. Music and flying were/are big parts of my life, so I get carried away some times.
Lot's of good tips posted so far. I'm sure he'll be happy with what you choose.

[oboe]

Tom Scholz of Boston?    

Thanks for all the advice guys.   Sounds like there's alot of guitar interest out there.    Really interesting about acoustic vs electric and beginners fingers.   Never woulda thought of that.

No basement here, per say.  The house is a split level so no true basement.   Headphones then are required I guess.

Jim is gonna be 14.

[DiabloTX]

I disagree with not going acoustic.  I learned on an electric when I started out.  Much later I bought an acoustic.  After playing ONLY the acoustic for 6 to 8 months my playing increased SIGNIFICANTLY.  If you can make it sound good on an acoustic, you will sound amazing on an electric.  Tell the kid to pay for his discipline with patience, it will pay off in the long run.  Or tell him to combine the two but focus on the acoustic.  Also, you can have the acoustic set up with much lighter strings and reset the guitar's setup for light guage strings.  Acoustics really build up your fingers and muscle memory, much better than an electric ever did for me.  Either way he or she will benefit but I really think acoustic is the best way to go.  So my advice is to practice with an acoustic, play with an electric.  Kinda like golf; drive for show, put for dough.  Patience and persistance is the key for the big pay off at the end.


EDIT - One other thing that I learned.  I live in a townhouse to so I can't just "plug in and play".  When I bought the acoustic my wife did't want to hear scales and licks all the time so I got real good and palm-muting my picking so it wouldn't bother her.  I got really, really good with subtle phrases and passages.  When I got the chance to plug in and play my playing was much, much better.  It's easy to be loud, distortion makes heroes of us alll, but to be able to play subtly, that is what seperates the good from the better.

[Wlfgng]

Rip has a good point.. get a POD or something so he can play with headphones and sound like a pro.
otherwise possibly a hybrid amp (tube/chip) that allows a headphone to be plugged in but it still sounds good.  Many 'headphone' amps sound suck through headphones.

nothing like poor equipment to hamper a beginner.

as to acoustic vs. electric it all depends on what he wants to play.  Electric style is much much different than acoustic.. fingering, bends, positions on the neck and how they sound, etc etc      IMO it's best to give a kid a boost of confidence to get started so buy whichever style he's into.

if he's into electric stuff, buying him an acoustic is a mistake.


btw LINE 6 sucks if you want real tone.. they're great for the "jack of all trades, master of none" but they pale in comparison to a tube amp.  I know.. I have one and my Fender and Marshall blow it away.

[Creamo]

oboe, I did an advance search on Ebay for "Zoom 9002" and the auctions ended for good working models is about $50. Might even find em cheaper. They are older units and seem to have problems after abuse, but I can't think of a better unit for a begginer at little cost to you if you can bid on one that was taken care of. Mine still works fine, and it's pretty old.

It sounds terrific, from distortion, to the best sounding Lifeson clean Chorus, and is so portable you can wear it on your belt. That means he can pick up and play in the park with it if he wants. It has 2 headphone jacks, in case you want to sit down and listen with him which might be cool and easy on the rest of the household, and you can easily pass it out to a computer for an no cost amp without headphones. If they are too risky, I'd ask guys here what is a similiar newer unit. That really is the slick way to go.

Guitar wise, I'd almost bet electric will be his taste, just casually ask him what he likes and post it. If it is, we will know, so forget about anything but finding out what low cost electric guitar will STAY IN TUNE. I'm outta the loop but Wlf might know. Cheap doesn't mean it has to sound horrible, expensive won't make him sound like Steve Vai. In fact, some of the vintage guitars do sound pretty awesome, but anyone that wails on them has all new tuners and the like, no matter what the SRV crowd says that want to run electric fence wire to get more "tone".

Good luck.

Edit- Oh, and forget about the cool looking "V" type guitars. He will be sitting hunkered down over the thing for a long time. Stage models sliding down his leg aren't cool at all really.

[Wlfgng]

go to Musician's Friend   hmm.. the link is down right now.

anyway, I agree with Creamo.  fug those V's and strange body shapes.  go with something comfortable and dependable.

The things to look for are
Straight neck with no 'humps' in it.  I.E. all notes play well up and down the neck.. not dead spots

solid attachment of the neck to the body...
(so many cheap guitars are NOT solid and impossible to get to sound good .  I.E. the neck shouldn't move at all)

good 'feel' to the neck.. this is individual taste.
(there are different shapes and sizes)
also you want low action (height of strings above the neck) but no  buzzing/rattling of strings (can happen when too low)

Whammy Bar.  in most cases don't get one on a cheap guitar.  For one to sound good and not go out of tune all the time, it must be made well and this runs up the price quite a bit.
Don't opt for the cheapie whammy system.. opt out.



----

I've seen a lot of Fender Squire's that will probably fit the bill.  Also a lot of decent-name knock offs .

Since I can't access musician's friend right now I can't give you more. but that's prolly more than enough already

[hyena426]

oboe, I did an advance search on Ebay for "Zoom 9002"

the rythme guitarist uses a old zoom pedal 9002 i beleve,,gots plenty of effects and really has stood up to the test of time,,i thought it wasnt going to last a year with on stage abuse,,but its still kicking down the road 4 years later,,lol<~~he paid like 150 for it new i think,,and keeps on working threw every bar gig we got,,so i cant complain about zoom thats for sure,,lol

as for big amps,ya best to stick around the 50,,60 watt range,,,not many use 100 heads for stage,,sence everything is going threw the pa system,,,good thing about my seymour duncan convertible,,its a studio amp,,it can run from 5watts up too 100 with a turn of a dial:)<~~very nice amps,,and hard to find in a rack mount like mine,,most are combo style,,,but still spendy to buy even used,,it has modules you can pull out,,that have tubes attached to them,,so you can internaly change the sound of it,,and some tubes have little eq built into the bottom of them,,so you can eq the tubes,,one of the most advanced tube amps i even seen<~~are othere guitar player uses a 50 watt soldano stack,,and it pushes out the power just fine,,on stage and off,,plenty of power for anyone

[Wlfgng]

I doubt if volume will be a problem.

I have four amps, ranging from 30 watts to 100 and
the 30 is plenty for most places we play.  The ONLY time I use the 100 is outdoors.. and even then it's friggin' LOUD.

but the tone rocks (Marshall)


My fender (tube like all but the Line6) is the most versatile, and has the best overall tone.

Soldano, Berhinger (sp), etc etc.. are all more 'specialized' in tone.. killer tone but less flexible.

hell, you can get a Fender champ amp (cheapo), add a pedal or two (also cheapo) and you're good to go.  I still practice with one when I don't want to be in the studio (headphones) and don't want to be too loud.

fwiw I have a Zoom 9150 if anyone wants it....

[hyena426]

dont forget old mesaboogie<~~too spendy i think,,but good sound:)

[Wlfgng]

Mesa Boogie mark IIC methinks      but I might want to add one...


Someone mentioned the Roland Cube.. good solid choice with good tone.  Can't really go wrong there.


A lot of this is about choice really.  I mean you want to avoid wasting your money on crap but there are tons of good choices out there.  The problem, if you can call it that, is what your kid wants to play.   Some amps/guitars lend themselves better to certain kinds of music and styles of playing.

Let us know what he wants and I'd be willing to bet we could narrow your search down a bit and get him what's going to inspire him.  It's a tricky thing, beginning guitar.... have to keep realistic but inspired to continue.

[Wlfgng]

the way to go.. except I'd prefer a '58 strat

pawn shop ?
The best place to go if you know what you're looking at.

speaking of Mesa's...:

[oboe]

Well his favorite groups are Blink 182, the Offspring, etc.   What style would you call that?

He also plays trumpet in the middel school jazz band, so I'd love to get him something that will be flexible in playing style and sound.

All good stuff here - it sounds like I might be looking for a Fender Squire and Roland cube amp.    

Thanks!

[Raubvogel]

Epiphone Les Paul Standard. Avoid the Les Paul "Special" they are cheap as chit.

[jigsaw]

Originally posted by oboe

All good stuff here - it sounds like I might be looking for a Fender Squire and Roland cube amp.    
 

That would be a good combo. Lot of tonal diversity. While at the store ask around about a good luthier / guitar tech. Invest the 20-30 bucks to have the guitar set up and strobed. It'll make a world of difference.