Bombing is too easy!

[Galwran]

I have noticed that in AH, bombing (with B-17) is too whoopee easy! I am a bad pilot, not a guru of any sort (my rank is 800 or so)and still my bombs tend to hit precisely on their targets, which is rather annoying (yes, it is annoying if your bombs are more accurate than those of B-2's). Id like that you make bombing a lot harder, because in the real world it could not been this easy: bombs should scatter, there should be dud bombs and bombsight should not be so stable as it is now.

[dolomite]

While you are absolutely correct, the game is still beta. This of course doesn't mean I don't agree with you, just be patient.  

[shower]

the whole bombing thing is unrealistic in this game.  here, a single bomber can fly higher than the interceptors have time to get, than make *6 or 12* passes over a field, dropping precisely one bomb each pass, each egg falling precisely on target.  in WWII iron bombs weren't that accurate and a single egg could not be used to take out, say, a tiny AAA gun from 21000 feet.  in WWII the planes dumped their entire load on the first pass hoping for a couple of solid hits and got the hell out of there.  more than two passes were unheard of, and two was only for extremely critical targets and the bombs did not release for some reason on the first pass.  hopefully HTC will make bombs less accurate and add flak batteries so the risk of multiple passes becomes unacceptable.

-shower

[Hans]

Dolomite is very correct.

It is a beta.  This bombing setup is just a placeholder.  Hell, we don't even have bomb bay doors and such.

However, as for a finished product I would also like to add my name to the list of people who want accurate bombing to be difficult.  I specifically prefer to have a setup where the bomber needs to drop the entire payload all at once.

[Freelancer]

Re:

<table ALIGN="CENTER" width="400" BORDER="0">
<TR>
<TD>
in WWII iron bombs weren't that accurate and a single egg could not be used to take out, say, a tiny AAA gun from 21000 feet. in WWII the planes dumped their entire load on the first pass hoping for a couple of solid hits and got the hell out of there. more than two passes were unheard of, and two was only for extremely critical targets and the bombs did not release for some reason on the first pass
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>

Well, you are forgetting one thing.....

<I>In WW2 they used fleets of up to 500 bombers at once, literally carpet bombing the entire city flat!!!!</I> If we could find about 200 crews or so to bomb at once, then I'd be the first to advocate inaccurate bombing.

However, that will not happen, ever! At most you get 3-5 AT MOST, at a time.

This is really the best, but I think that the bombs should have proximity blasts, so that if they hit near the target they damage it partially. Also, buildings should have hit points. If you hit it with a 1000lb-er, it'll go down. Also, 10 100lb-ers will also down it, see what I mean?

That way small fighters with 100lb ordanance can still make an effect, if not taking the target down in one hit, by ganging up on it.


-Freelancer

[Freelancer]

Dangit... I thought this thing took HTML???

How do you quote messages, then??


-Free

[Lance]

<I>In WW2 they used fleets of up to 500 bombers at once, literally carpet bombing the entire city flat!!!!</I> If we could find about 200 crews or so to bomb at once, then I'd be the first to advocate inaccurate bombing.

However, that will not happen, ever! At most you get 3-5 AT MOST, at a time.

Its hard to compare historical bombing missions with what is in AH right now.  

Historically, you needed hundreds of bombers to sustain losses and retain enough planes to level huge sprawling cities or industrial complexes.  That isn't the case in AH.  Our cities are more the size of a medieval village.  Its entirely possible to raze 2 acks in one run, which is good enough to capture many bases.  

As Dolomite mentioned, its beta and we don't know what plans they have for us and how they might affect the relative success of bombing.  If we were to get cities the scale of Berlin or London, high-altitude flak, realistic flight ceilings and so on, you might be looking at the accuracy of the current bombing system in a whole different light.

Gordo

[Lance]

Freelancer, substitute brackets for the greater than/less than signs used to punctuate HTML tags.  Ex: [~i] and [~/i], but take out the ~.

Gordo

[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 12-23-1999).]

[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 12-23-1999).]

[iculus]

Let the record show that there were frequently raids of 1,200+ B-17's over europe late in the war.  Although the Forts' and their crews took some serious abuse from the Luftwaffe and flak, and many didn't return, realistically there was no way to stop the massive streams of bombers from getting to their target.

That's real life...so stop knocking the buff drivers so hard.

Salute,
IC

[JoeMud]

You guys against buffing or something??? More and more now i'm starting to see guys complain about buffs. Its beta and plus theres no way you should do that carpet bombing stuff unless there are about 100 guys flying buffs online,but I realy dont think the server would even hold that many planes in one spot.

[eskimo]

Obviously the BUFFs are historically way too accurate.  But this game is made much more enjoyable and interesting by the fact that there is an objective besides dogfighting.  The possibility of field capture is really the main incentive for people to fly BUFFs.  The ack is just too deadly for fighters to consistantly take it out.  Only from up high can someone stand a chance to knock out ack and open up a field for capture. Without the game aspect of a small force being capable of field captures, I believe that the B-17's would rarely fly.  I fly about 1/2 of my sorties in the B-17, if it's accuracy was made more historically correct, I think that I would rarely fly it, what would be the point?
For the sake of the game, the BUFFs need to be accurate.
eskimo

[Thunder]

Eskimo,

You are right on "target" here.. I am sure as the game progresses and HiTech starts working on the bombers we will see some changes. It is my understanding that it will be harder to hit the target in the future. Wind correction, gyro movement, altitude correction may or may not be introduced. But,
whatever difficulty induced there will be a method for correction. If that is done...you WILL HIT the target. I am not hearing any  suggestion that we introduce jammed gunns and "dud" rounds in fighters   Hmm maybe we should have random gauge failures, ice on the wings, flat tires, bad gas, random mechanical failures for fighters. That would make it more realistic after all it was historically accurate! I DON'T THINK SO! My read is HiTech is doing a "great job" on playability issues vs total realism! Thoughs decissions are what "REALLY" makes it fun for the majority of players. Most of us miss that point!

[Hans]

Well, no offense, but I don't think we need hundreds of bombers to level a city for our needs.

First.  Change the rules of the game ALOT.

Carpet bombing yes, but not on the scale that there really was.  One, two, or three plane formations.

Change it from multiple, indivdual buildings to one very large, very important target.  Have that target very strong, requiring multiple tons of bombs to destroy, that repair any partiall damage (damaged, on fire, but still standing and operating) within a very, very short time period.  That "single bomb and return a minute latter" tactic will be the WRONG thing to do.  Drop all the bombs all at once and kill it outright.  One drop and the target is done.  RTB.

The difficulty sould be the bombsighting.  Have variables in the bombsight you need to set in.  Wind.  Direction of wind.  Speed.  Altitude.

The down side is you spend all this time getting to altitude, getting to the target, but dropping the bombs is over in one run.  It takes some of the fun out of it to spend so much efort and time on a thing, only to be over in a flash.

One other point.  Have major ground targets being knocked out announced across the arena and the name of the bomber pilot attached.  Give that player bragging rights just like figher pilots get.  One thing I have noticed is, well, that the bombers are NOT noticed.  Give them their due.  Make them feel like they are active in the forfront, not doing things in the hidden sidelines.

HOST: Factory complex 'Duetchburg' has been destroyed by Hans.

Now people know you've done something and where you did it.  Your a hero.  They can now plan accordingly.

Hans.

[This message has been edited by Hans (edited 12-28-1999).]