Christianity Debunked???

[pwnorris]

Originally posted by Otto
I'm and Agnostic.  I'd like to think there's a 'Higher Power' in the Universe but I can't accept it on faith alone.

I would suggest that some of the folks here need to read up on their ancient Greek philosophers.  I mean the one's who predate Christianity, as well as Plotinus.  These men were able, through human reason, to discern that the universe that they knew was created by one being who was all-powerful and all-knowing.

Now, they did get several things wrong, but they were remarkably close to some of what Christians hold to be true.  

It is common for people to say that religious people rely on faith and discount reason.  There are some people like that, but be careful because there are many religious people of great intellectual power.  Faith and reason are not opposed to each other.  Faith can empower and direct reason.  Reason can provide a foundation for faith.  

In my experience I have found nonreligious people to be as dogmatic and close minded as some religious people.  But this is understandable because they hold to their atheism with a similar religious faith as that of the religious believer.

So, if you say there is not god, then nothing I say will be able to convince you otherwise.  

Also, many of the athiests that I have talked to bring up the religious wars as proof that religion is some great evil and the root of all "evil."  But look at Communism.  It was offcially athiestic.  National Socialism (Nazis) was, for all practicle purposes, athiestic as well.  These two systems killed more people in the 20th century than anyone can count.  

The disposition to evil is in all of us.  Christianity offers us an alternative.  The proof that Christianity is real will come with time.  It has existed in the world for 2,000 years.  If it outlives us, and our children and grandchildren, that is pretty good proof that the promises of its "God" are true.

The final proof comes at death.  Are we willing to wait until the day we die to find out if the Christians of 2,000 years have been right?

[Frogm4n]

Originally posted by pwnorris

The final proof comes at death.  Are we willing to wait until the day we die to find out if the Christians of 2,000 years have been right?

I have my beliefs, and trying to scare people into believing a religion is competely idiotic.

[pwnorris]

Originally posted by Frogm4n
I have my beliefs, and trying to scare people into believing a religion is competely idiotic.

Actually, the fear of death and possible judgment have led some to belief.  For others, it has been science or some other activity.

It is not my intention to frieghten anyone into belief.  Rather it is to point to the fact that Christianity has been around for 2,000 years.  It is only when we die (and our mortality is a fact, not a threat) that we will either meet God or slip into oblivion.

If I am a Christian and I am wrong, and there is no god, then I have lost the opportunity for some fun in this life.

If I am an atheist and I am wrong, and there is a god, what do I do or say?

If I am an atheist and right, then how will history remember me?  I certainly won't care at that point, I've slipped off to oblivion, or whatever they call it.

If I am a Christian and right, that there is a god, I still have to answer for my words and actions in this world.

[Frogm4n]

Whatever makes you feel more comfortable.
Alot of religions have been around for longer then 2000. Dont use age as a reasoning for something to be correct.

[pwnorris]

Originally posted by Frogm4n
Alot of religions have been around for longer then 2000. Dont use age as a reasoning for something to be correct.

However, if Christianity is true, and has been founded by God, I would expect it to remain until the world ends, whether it is tomorrow of  four billion years from now.

Your right though.  The thought that there is a loving God who sent His Son to die for my sins, and to set me free from those sins, gives me great joy.  

Peace.

[midnight Target]

I would suggest that some of the folks here need to read up on their ancient Greek philosophers. I mean the one's who predate Christianity, as well as Plotinus. These men were able, through human reason, to discern that the universe that they knew was created by one being who was all-powerful and all-knowing.

Load of crap. Monotheism was NOT common for the Ionians or the other Greek philosophers. Where did you hear this drivel?

[pwnorris]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Monotheism was NOT common for the Ionians or the other Greek philosophers. Where did you hear this drivel?

Monotheism, no.  But they were beginning to get some things right.  But read Plotinus.  He is as close as you can get.

But then, in ancient times Jews and Christians were considered atheists.  They only had one god, unlike Rome and Greece who had many.  

But thank you for your kindness in pointing out my errors.

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by Furball


8. Beer has never caused a major war.  

Ever been to Oktoberfest and REALLY needed to use the head?

never caused a major war my a**!

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by pwnorris
Monotheism, no.  But they were beginning to get some things right.  But read Plotinus.  He is as close as you can get.

But then, in ancient times Jews and Christians were considered atheists.  They only had one god, unlike Rome and Greece who had many.  

But thank you for your kindness in pointing out my errors.

You're welcome. "Getting some things right" equates to some kind of solidification of Christianity? LOL... more like proof of the eficacy of the scientific method. I think you may want to leave Aristarchus and his friends out of your logical meanderings.

[Frogm4n]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Load of crap. Monotheism was NOT common for the Ionians or the other Greek philosophers. Where did you hear this drivel?

Plato mainly came up with the idea that there is more then just the corporeal world. The christians are not right i can grauntee that. In fact i dont think any human has any idea what will happen when one dies. So i say enjoy life while you can, and having death be a complete mystrey is quite interesting. But if you feel guilty for what you have done in your life, and need to feel like your 'forgiven' by all means find a  religion that will say its okay.

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by Frogm4n
In fact i dont think any human has any idea what will happen when one dies...

Enter, Faith...

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Frogm4n
Plato mainly came up with the idea that there is more then just the corporeal world. The christians are not right i can grauntee that. In fact i dont think any human has any idea what will happen when one dies. So i say enjoy life while you can, and having death be a complete mystrey is quite interesting. But if you feel guilty for what you have done in your life, and need to feel like your 'forgiven' by all means find a  religion that will say its okay.

Is that a life back guarantee?

Did you sucker Saurdakur out of $5? If not, why not?

[RedTop]

Originally posted by cpxxx
You know what I wish? I just all the evangelical christians. muslims, etc etc would just leave us all alone. Stop trying to convert everyone to your wretched beliefs. Stop trying to introduce laws that suit your relligion and stop to make the rest of us live to your morality.

Just leave us alone. Believe what you like and live your life as you choose and let the rest of us get on with our  lives as we see fit.

Some people of faith that hold to there values feel the same about the non-believers forcing there values on them.

pwnorris hit it very well. If there is no heaven or God then all the things I may miss out on will just be my miss.

If however there is and I have done things the right way and get to heaven...Then all those things that you did that were'nt right willl cost you in the end.

Just believe whatever you wish and don't dictate your ways on those that you don't want dictating to you.

[Shuckins]

This ground had just as many stones in it the last time we plowed it.

Stating that I do not care what you believe would be an untruth.  I do care.  However, I realize that we are all going to believe what we want to believe, arguments to the contrary notwithstanding.  It is enough for me to witness the many, unexplainable wonders of nature...and see in them a miracle.

Some students I once knew who went to a small rural school had a better perspective on this subject than many of us on these boards.  A new teacher, who happened to be an atheist, felt it her duty to call these students religious beliefs into question.  Now, please understand, these kids were not saints.   They were normal teenagers in every sense of the word.  Coming from the rural South, they were accustomed to having adults admonish them about their drinking and carousing.  They would listen politely, and then continue to do the things that they wanted to do.

But as far as they were concerned, this teacher had crossed the line.  She wasn't providing guidance;  she was "Meddlin.!"  By questioning the teaching of their parents and grandparents she had thrown down the gauntlet.  They responded to this challenge in magnificent fashion.  Several sessions of spirited debate resulted.  Finally, nearing a stalemate, the teacher sniffed disdainfully and stated that she, "...didnt care to hear anymore of their unintelligent and backward ideas."

To which one young girl respond..."That's fair Mrs. So-and-So because  We dont' care if You Go to Hell either."

Ba-da-boom.

Religions is a personal thing...it's either going to come to you or it isn't...so let's quit beating each other over the head about it.

Shuckins/Leggern

[Frogm4n]

Originally posted by AKIron
Is that a life back guarantee?

Did you sucker Saurdakur out of $5? If not, why not?

He dosnt want to give me any money.