F4U1c`s *RUIN* the ground war!

[weazel]

 Theres no denying that something isn`t quite right here. The guns are more like something out of Star Wars than WW II. IMO HTC shouldn`t waste any more time on the ground war aspect of Aces High if all it takes is a couple of F4U`s to ruin armored attacks. The M-16 doesn`t even come close to providing air defense for armored columns. The inaugural mission for the 15th Panzer Division was tonight and while it was a kick to see all the tanks rolling on a5 and a16 both  attacks were ruined by the "Super Star Destroyer" cannon of the F4U1c`s. The only answers I can come up with are:

#1. Make it a limited number available aircraft.(wishful thinking)

#2. Remove it from the game.(don`t think this is an option)

#3. Give the ground huggers something with a good chance of killing it.(My favorite)

     

2cm Flakvierling auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen IV (Sf) Mobelwagen armed with four 20mm Flak 38 guns.

   

Weight: 24000kg
Crew: 4-7 men
Engine: Maybach HL 120 TRM / 12-cylinder / 300hp
Speed: Road: 38km/h
Cross-Country: --km/h
Range: Road: 200km
Cross-Country: 130km
Fuel Capacity: 470 litres
Lenght: 5.92m
Width: 2.95m
Height: 2.73m
Armament: 37mm Flak 43 L/89 & 7.92mm MG42
4 x 20mm Flak 38 L/112.5 & 7.92mm MG42
Ammo: 37mm - 416 rounds
7.92mm - 600 rounds
Armor: 10-80mm

     

OR

     
Flakpanzer IV (3.7cm FlaK) Ostwind
     
Flakpanzer IV (2cm Vierling) Wirbelwind

   

Specifications
Model: Wirbelwind    Ostwind
Weight: 22000kg    25000kg
Crew: 5 men     6 men
Engine: Maybach HL 120 TR 112 / 12-cylinder / 272hp Maybach HL 120 TR 112 / 12-cylinder / 272hp
Speed: 38km/h    38km/h
Range: Road: 200km
Cross-Country: 130km Road: 200km
Cross-Country: 130km
Capacity: 470 liters    470 liters
Lenght: 5.92m    5.92m
Width: 2.90m    2.95m
Height: 2.76m    3.00m
Armament: 4 x 20mm Flak 38 L/112.5
1 x 7.92mm MG34
(1 x MG34 - hull) 37mm Flak 43 L/89
2 x 7.92mm MG
(1 x MG34 - hull)
(1 x MG 34/42 - carried inside)
 
Ammo: 20mm - 3200 rounds
7.92mm - 1350 rounds   37mm - 1000 rounds
7.92mm - 1350 rounds
Armor: 10-80mm    10-80mm

[This message has been edited by weazel (edited 05-07-2000).]

[CART91I]

i'll take em all  

[Citabria]

I have no sympathy for tankers. I could lie to you but I don't.

in fact how are tanks to be killed when they can stroll out of 1k bomb craters undamaged?

the roll of bomb and cannon in effectiveness against tanks needs to be reversed. the times I've watched tanks mosey out of my bomb craters left from a well executed drop are in the double digits.

in fact so ineffective are bombs against the panzer that I too have resorted to using the f4u1c to kill them.

mind you I love jabo in my p38L but I do not have a CCIP bomb impact point display. In my mind when I salvo off a pair of 1k bombs on a tank and the tank is in the crater that tank should be a smouldering wreck.

rocket attacks do not affect the panzer either.


the m16 sitting in my bomb crater goes poof a second later so it IS affected by a good bomb drop from a dive with any good fighter bomber, the less than heavily armored panzer should be equally damaged in such attacks.

come on the panzer is in the same class as the sherman here, panzershrieks and the likes turned them into swiss cheese.

no point to fly the typhoon in ground attack against tanks, the rockets and bombs have a chance of slim to none on kills and the f4u carries more rounds.

ok I'm done ranting

flame away

[weazel]

 Ummm-near misses don`t count citabria,I`ve been killed/disabled many times by rockets and bombs-I don`t have a problem with those kills. Maybe some more jabo practice might be the answer for you?

 I also didn`t ask for sympathy-I`m looking for solutions to a problem many people complain about.If 20mm HS cannon were so effective against armor why did they equip aircraft with ordnance?

[Citabria]

more jabo practice?
LOL

so using only a best guess from the cockpit of a p-38L landing a 1,000lb bomb 12 inches from you placing your vehicle in a crater does not merit a kill?

ordnance should be way more effective than cannons yet both should be lethal enough to smash a tank to bits.

are you saying you prefer to be smashed to bits by 4 20mm from the average dweeb instead of being nailed by a jabo pilot through sheer luck and practice has managed to place his bombs within feet of your vehicle?

My solution was to make 20mm/30mm not have as great effect and restoring bombs to a more realistic state.


may god help you the day a dedicated ground attack aircraft comes along.

[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 05-07-2000).]

[HaHa]

Sigh weazel why didn't you continue my thread - or at least reference it ??
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/003143.html

I discuss the exact same problem as you. I also agree we need to either remove it or add some better ground ack equipment.

Really I think the problem lies in the "rapid spawn" issue in the arena. A panzer IV is a heck of a lot cheaper than a f4u1c. Unfortunately the strategy system doesn't take this into account at all (I have dealt with vehicle/plane attrition in NUMEROUS threads before). People will always want to spawn in the "best = most expensive" equipment. In reality this equipment would be in short supply - thus resulting in more lower end stuff... the fact is tanks should be 1/10th the price of aircraft and outnumber them as such.

[funked]

DUHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Fix the 20mm armor penetration (too much it seems).

Fix the bomb effectiveness vs. armor (too little it seems).

[easymo]

 I got a better idea. Remove the armor. This is supposed to be a FLIGHT sim.

[moose]

I agree with Citabria

Fix the cannons of the F4u ( less powerful )and increase the bomb blast so a small range miss would at least give damage to the pantzer.


[This message has been edited by Moose (edited 05-07-2000).]

[Citabria]

um

it aint the f4u alone
it's all cannon armed fighters that are to effective for gameplay vs tanks.

GAMEPLAY!
this is apparently what we seem to want i guess (unfortunately)

however I am against any more fuktuations in the gunnery model for plane vs plane effectiveness  

[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 05-07-2000).]

[Hristo]

 

Originally posted by Citabria:
um

it aint the f4u alone
it's all cannon armed fighters that are to effective for gameplay vs tanks.


[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 05-07-2000).]

NO !

In Lybia scenario we were all flying 3 20mm 109F-4 (Mg 151/20). Tanks were simply imune to it.

MG 151/20 is ineffective against Panzers, only Hispano and 30mm can kill one.

[weazel]

 

I got a better idea. Remove the armor. This is supposed to be a FLIGHT sim.

*Some* of us like the combined arms operations-there`s still plenty of dweeby low level furballs for those who enjoy that crap.

 

Fix the cannons of the F4u ( less powerful )and increase the bomb blast so a small range miss would at least give damage to the panzer.

 I *don`t* want the guns screwed with,they seem OK to me as is,maybe the penetration is excessive-I`m not qualified to make a judgement on that.Look at the current Warbirds gunnery debacle -do we want the "flavor of the week" guns?(not me) Blast radius of the bombs large enough-dunno but I`ve been killed or disabled by bombs and rockets,they seem ok to me.

 All I`m asking for is some mobile flak to make the FporkU`s think twice about the strafing runs-and give me as good a chance to kill them as they have of killing me.

[Creamo]

 

Originally posted by easymo:
I got a better idea. Remove the armor. This is supposed to be a FLIGHT sim.

Hmmm, your now Beefcakes wingman.

Good Luck men.

[Citabria]

sounds good

leave the guns/damage alone...

fix the bombs to where if the tanks in the crater its toasty


AND add some flakpanzers from hell

[StSanta]

YEH!

Flakpanzers would *really* make a difference  .

No more kills for me then. I only take on lightly armoured M16's. Seriously, that would force me to take bombs, which would be good I think. Also quite rewarding.

But I have to agree with Citabria with regards to bomb damage; I've hit tanks dead on with my 500kg bomb, and nothing.

Then again, I've seen Spits destroy tanks in a  single sweep.



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StSanta
II/JG2