Evolution = Myth

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by ravells
Quite. Grun.

The point is, we don't know.

For me, the question about belief in God has always been, not so much how many questions does its existence/non-existence answer, but whether our belief in its presence actually make the world a better place to live in.

On balance, apart from some great examples of humanity shown by religious people, it's been pretty much a negative in my book.

Ravs

I imagine you are thinkiging of all the religious violence, correct?

But consider this, how many people have died due to ideological violence? Should the would then be a better place if we had no ideas?  Of course not.

So then the problem isnt religion or ideas, its extremist actions based on those concenpts - thats waht we have to be aware of
and thats what we have confont and defeat.

[ravells]

Yes. But whether it's religious or ideological makes no difference to people who have died and the people who have to live with those deaths.

Religion is just another ideology, if you like.

Couldn't agree with you more about the extremist issue. Johnathan Swift had it taped in 'Gulliver's Travels' with the big endians and little endians.

ravs

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by ravells
Yes. But whether it's religious or ideological makes no difference to people who have died and the people who have to live with those deaths.

Religion is just another ideology, if you like.

Couldn't agree with you more about the extremist issue. Johnathan Swift had it taped in 'Gulliver's Travels' with the big endians and little endians.

ravs

If you dont mind me asking, would you ever sacrifice your life to save the life of your wife or girlfiend?

[ravells]

I wouldn't know until I was in the situation, but I'd like to think I would.

why?

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by ravells
I wouldn't know until I was in the situation, but I'd like to think I would.

why?

Because love is only another idea.

[ravells]

Well, you were asking about self sacrifice and not killing another person.

Ravs

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by ravells
Well, you were asking about self sacrifice and not killing another person.

Ravs

Perhaps,

Yet I could simply restate the question and ask would you kill a person trying to kill your wife or girlfriend and I think you you would answer similary.

Would you?

[ravells]

Again...depends upon the situation and again, probably.

There is a big difference between self defence and defending the people you love and killing for some political or religious conviction, in that in the former, you are dealing with flesh and blood and in the latter you are dealing with something that resides in your head.

Ravs

[GRUNHERZ]

But the idea of love is important, its the reason you the individual would more likely place yourself at risk legaly and physically to save that person.

Whats more likely, that you kill person trying to kill your wife or that you kill person trying to kill random guy on street as youy walk by?

You are doing it based on the idea of love and love resides in the head.

It does doesnt it, ravells?

We can all lust after a beutiful woman, thats physical. Yet love is more than that, its an idea, its in the head and in the heart.

And thats why you would kill or die or to protect her, not because of physical lust, thats easy enough to replace by finding another woman, but because of love - an idea.

And much the same works with religion and ideas, you do things to protect the outcomes of ideas you hold dear - even kill or be killed for them..

You wouldnt want a world without the idea of love, no?

[midnight Target]

There simply isn't anything out there that substantiates the migration from water to land nor from land to flight nor from reptile to mamal.

Silly Mini.

Water to Land - Absurdly obvious. We still have existant transitional species that perform the miracle of "amphibiousness" while still remaining "fishy". One example off the top of my head is the Mudskipper of the Southern US. Natural slection would favor an animal that could move further from pond to pond during dry seasons or climactic changes. No need to make up anything. It is right in front of us.

Land to Flight - Tired of typing now... go HERE Explanations and references.

[ravells]

You're missing my point.

I'm saying that when you're dealing with ideologies you are dealing with a concept of a 'perfect world' whether it's Christ, Allah, Captialist or Communist...it's just a mental construct.

When you are dealing with someone who means harm to a loved one of yours you are dealing with immediate reality.

Yes, our idea of love and our idea of religion are 'ideas' as you say, but they occupy different rungs on the ladder of abstraction.

Ravs

[hawker238]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
evolution makes sense to show how differetn branches of species end up suited for their environment.

it only becomes stupid when you try to project it back to explain the existance of all life.  to believe that we got to where we are now by a random series of lucky brakes, starting with one little cell off goo, requires way more faith than creationalism.

What if you have unlimited chances for that goo to become something?

[ravells]

GRUNHERZ, I must go to bed, or I shall be killed by the very woman you've been trying to get me to save.

Take care, nice talking to you as always.

Ravs

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by ravells


When you are dealing with someone who means harm to a loved one of yours you are dealing with immediate reality.

Ravs

And when somebody threatens to kill you unless you give up your religion then thats immiediate reality too.

You see the idea of love is what links you to that person, its what makes it immediate reality to you. The same with religion.

It's all based on an idea...

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by ravells
GRUNHERZ, I must go to bed, or I shall be killed by the very woman you've been trying to get me to save.

Take care, nice talking to you as always.

Ravs

It's because she loves you.  Has been a good talk!