Author Topic: External hardrive back up systems (Read 537 times)

nopoop · « **on:** April 05, 2004, 02:08:05 PM »

So I have this hard drive thats dying and want to extract a BUNCH of stuff to put in my new hard drive before I pull the plug.

Also would like to backup weekly so I don't lose some photo's etc.

What are my choices, whats good but doesn't cost and arm and a leg ??

What's with the "one button" back up thingys ??

New territory here.

Thanks in advance.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #1 on:** April 05, 2004, 05:41:13 PM »

Depends on what you mean by 'arm and leg' nopoop.

Best solution is a DVD Burner. 4.5+GB on a media that will be there when you need it.

FOGOLD · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2004, 01:57:17 AM »

For work I use an Amacom Flip2Disk which is USB2, mirrors my hard drive once a week and is bootable in an emergency. It gives me peace of mind. I think an external HD is probably the quickest and safest way to back up important stuff. You can unplug it and put it away somewhere too in case of a fire or something.

Halo · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2004, 03:06:02 PM »

I'm happy with an external Maxtor hard drive that backs up my entire system once a week.

Panzzer · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2004, 03:24:47 PM »

DVD burners are quite useful for backups. Internal DVD+/-RW drives are cheap, and external (usb2) drives aren't too expensive either.

Ofcourse an external HD would be nice, especially those 200+ GB Firewire/usb2 things, but they cost "an arm and a leg"

A smaller usb-harddrive (20G) should be somewhere close to 100$ (at least here in Finland you can get one for 100€)... Depends on how much stuff you've got to back up.

Chairboy · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2004, 03:53:07 PM »

I'd go with an external drive, and here's why:

1. USB 2.0 is fast, very fast.
2. 200+ gigabyte bare drives are getting cheap, since you don't need super high performance for your backup you can get one for around a hundred dollars if you shop around.
3. USB 2.0 enclosures are cheap. You can easilly find them for $40, and there are often deals where you can get them for around $25-30 (bensbargains.net just had one listed for $26) so they don't add significantly to the price.

I would suggest that DVD-R technology is good if you want to archive specific documents and chunks of data, but with todays hard drive sizes, the trade off between flexibillity and convenience might make a hard disk solution better. You're probably more likely to back up your HD every day if it's easy then if you have to swap 20-40 DVD-Rs.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2004, 04:06:41 PM »

I knew there would be a rash of folks saying to use an HD for backup as they are cheap. And they are.

But, when that drive fails, there goes all that data and it will fail. With a DVD burner, if the drive fails, big deal. Buy another one as your data is still safe and sound on the media.

Now, I come from old school where 'backup' meant some that was as near to being a sure deal as possible. I do not see an external HD as being a 'backup' solution. Just another potental place for you to lose your data.

FOGOLD · « **Reply #7 on:** April 07, 2004, 04:16:12 PM »

What if the dvd/cd fails? I've seen this plenty. Put burned cd in drive. Heck! it don't read. So much for "safe and sound on the media" Hard drives dont fail that often and the chances of your main hard drive AND your backup hard drive failing at the same time are extremely small.

Actually there is no such thing as a surefire backup. Take several backups on several different media. ONE of them will save your neck!:D ESPECIALLY save your data often just somewhere.

FOGOLD · « **Reply #8 on:** April 07, 2004, 04:23:51 PM »

Just make backups often and in the most pathlogical and paranoid way possible. There's no easy answer (as we see above!). The only thing is, if you can mirror a hard drive, theres a chance you can be up and running again quite quickly rather than facing a major reinstall job.

I guess this can be done on a DVD if it's big enough. I've never tried it.

Orig · « **Reply #9 on:** April 07, 2004, 04:55:00 PM »

The neat thing about backing up on removable media like DVD is that you can burn a few copies and the only thing you lose is about $1 per disc and some of your time. If you think the DVD disc may fail, buy a spindle of discs from 2 different manufacturers and make 2 separate copies. Better yet, make weekly incremental backups and monthly or quarterly "full" backups.

I'm lazy so I usually only make full backups once a year and before major software or hardware upgrades. To keep a slim margin of safety, I keep more current backups of my email, my work folders, and the archive folder where I keep the installation and update patch files for the various programs I use and wouldn't want to have to try to find/download if my hard drive crashed.

Of course, I also "cheat". I have a second hard drive in my main computer that is used for nothing but archiving stuff. I move files I think I want an immediately available copy of to that second hard drive, and I use it for immediate day to day backups of files I use a lot. Every month or so, I archive any new stuff on that second hard drive to CD or DVD.

Backing up to a hard drive is quick and painless but it has some risk of failure that can't be mitigated without "backing up your backups" using some type of media that won't be taken out by the same hazard that may take out your primary storage. One good power spike or lightning strike will wipe anything plugged in, regardless of how good your surge protectors are, even if they're not turned on. I recently accidentally arced a couple hundred volts right through a standard surge protector. If there's enough power, the surge protector simply catches fire as the power runs through your equipment. Luckily I had nothing important on that circuit but I relearned a lesson taught in any good high school science class...

Skuzzy · « **Reply #10 on:** April 07, 2004, 04:58:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FOGOLD
What if the dvd/cd fails? I've seen this plenty. Put burned cd in drive. Heck! it don't read. So much for "safe and sound on the media" Hard drives dont fail that often and the chances of your main hard drive AND your backup hard drive failing at the same time are extremely small.

Actually there is no such thing as a surefire backup. Take several backups on several different media. ONE of them will save your neck!:D ESPECIALLY save your data often just somewhere.

Hmm,..the whole point being that if the DVD device dies, your media is still intact and you replace the DVD drive and have not lost any data.
HD's die and they will die more often today than 5 years ago. When it dies, the data goes with it.

And yes, there is no perfect solution to this problem.

Halo · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2004, 12:33:23 AM »

Yeah, really, best bet would seem to be running an external hard drive backup for entire system at least weekly PLUS backing up whatever you consider really crucial to DVD (I guess, because I don't have a recordable DVD yet) or CD.

However, gotta say I don't trust DVD or CD any more than another hard drive or any other medium. All can fail.

I've been betrayed too many times by CD-RW especially which are soooooo tempermental if they don't close each session exactly right. Way too unreliable for important backups -- regular CD-R seem much more stable, mainly because they record only once.

I assume the same applies to DVD recording, but as I said, I'm not there yet.

Another key point of backup is that even an external hard drive should be disconnected and moved out of the computer room in between its scheduled backup times (usually weekly or so). No backup is very safe if it remains hooked up to your computer all the time or even in the same room.

Same goes for backup disks. Keep them at least in another room. Businesses of course keep backups in different buildings and sometimes other areas and often in vaults.

FOGOLD · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2004, 05:06:45 AM »

Absolutely. I actually find Zip 250 disks still adequate for daily use backing up data. I'm not using massive complex programmes Zips are pretty reliable I've found.

Skuzzy, what you say about decreased reliability of HD's is interesting. My local PC guy said he had two people with HD failures within a week. Drives less than a month old. What was more alarming was that they couldn't recover any of the data, wheras previously they were usually able to recover data.

Do you think it's increased size or cheaper manufacturing?

maddog · « **Reply #13 on:** April 08, 2004, 10:43:37 AM »

The perfect way is not to trash your old system but use it as backup when you implement a new system. I have 1) my work sys 2) wifes (dragon lady's) sys 3) Gaming sys

All three have large drives (multiple) and important data files (music, photos, my documents etc.) are copied on all three systems.

When installing new "C" drive I use the old "C" drive as d: or other and copy data (favorites, my docs etc) to new drive. Then it gets fdisked, formatted and put in extra system.

Use a file sync program to copy files over the 3 or 4 systems and keep them updated.....

Also use a "virtual CD" program and have loaded important Application CDs on HD so setting up new drive is easier.... No more searching closets for office Cd/photoshop etc CDs.

Been avoiding getting DVD writable drive cause that would put me into video and the costs just start to escalate with Drive,Adobe premium, assorted software costs etc. ....... Waiting till Dragon Lady wants to convert family VHS to DVD.... Then its all cost justified.....

Skuzzy · « **Reply #14 on:** April 09, 2004, 07:24:11 AM »

FOGOLD, next time an HD dies, go ahead and rip it apart. If you have a drive over 3 years old and it dies rip it open.

The drives built in the last couple of years or so, have become commodity product. As such, the manufacturer's look for cheaper ways to get them out the door.

For instance, to make a drive quieter new commodity drives use polymer based bearings and races. They are a lot quieter, and cheaper, and they wear out a lot faster. Motor balance is not as critical as the polymer will absorb quite a bit of the vibrations as well. This reduces manufacturing costs and provides greater yeilds of acceptable armatures.

Other ways to reduce the noise from a drive is to use a ferro-fluid bearing spindle motor, which is not cheap at all. The next step up from that is a spindle motor using a magnetic suspension bearing, which provides for absolutley no metal on metal contact. The 15K RPM Seagate Cheetah motors are of this variety.

Stepper motors are using nylon sleeve bearings now, which are quiet, but wear faster than the ball bearing based spindle motors.

Now if you increase the areal density of the drive exponentially the slop or play in the mechanics become very problematic. The allowable play in the mechanics of a 40GB drive will kill a 200GB drive.