Author Topic: Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?  (Read 1637 times)

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13275
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2004, 03:57:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hristo
I know. How about second time now, like Iraq ? ;)


Did we ever leave Germany? Seems that we still have troops there?
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Thrawn

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6972
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2004, 03:57:53 PM »
I wonder how many people appreciate the irony that these "Al-Sadr" insurgents are the same faction of Shia "freedom fighters" that rose up against SH after the Gulf War.

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13275
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2004, 04:03:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
I wonder how many people appreciate the irony that these "Al-Sadr" insurgents are the same faction of Shia "freedom fighters" that rose up against SH after the Gulf War.


They wanted power then same as now.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Thrawn

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6972
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2004, 04:06:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
They wanted power then same as now.


But most people said they fighting for freedom after the Gulf War.  You know the 3000+ buried in mass graves.  Fighting agianst the opression of SH.

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13275
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2004, 04:12:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
But most people said they fighting for freedom after the Gulf War.  You know the 3000+ buried in mass graves.  Fighting agianst the opression of SH.


So, are you suggesting that American forces are oppressing them like Saddam Hussein?
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Thrawn

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6972
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #65 on: April 08, 2004, 04:19:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
So, are you suggesting that American forces are oppressing them like Saddam Hussein?


I don't think so.  Perhaps they do.  I didn't mean to come across like that.  What I'm upset about is the people that go around using stupid spin words.  And think that by using different labels for people somehow changes the people.

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13275
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2004, 04:25:20 PM »
It's a fact that Hussein brutally oppressed many Iraqis. It isn't inconsistent to say that those wanting to throw off his yoke of oppression also wanted to establish their own power base. I most certainly would if I were in their shoes, why trade one brutal dictator for another? However, we aren't going to let a minority take control of the country undemocratically, even if we have to use force to suspress this uprising.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Torque

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2091
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2004, 04:26:42 PM »
You actually get upset from this bb's dribble?

Offline Thrawn

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6972
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2004, 04:31:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
It's a fact that Hussein brutally oppressed many Iraqis. It isn't inconsistent to say that those wanting to throw off his yoke of oppression also wanted to establish their own power base.


I agree.  I just wonder what kind of repsonse I would have gotten by some on this BBS.  If I suggest as little as two weeks ago that, "The Shia that rose up against SH after the Gulf War did for power politic reasons.".  I don't think some would have been to kind.

I hope some see this a bit of wake call, that simple lables might make it easier to see things as black and white, but things usually aren't black and white.

Offline Torque

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2091
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2004, 04:32:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
However, we aren't going to let a minority take control of the country undemocratically, even if we have to use force to suspress this uprising.


Well that's what you did in the '69 coup, things have changed i suppose.

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13275
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2004, 04:32:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
I hope some see this a bit of wake call, that simple lables might make it easier to see things as black and white, but things usually aren't black and white.


Can't argue with that.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Thrawn

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6972
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2004, 04:34:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Torque
You actually get upset from this bb's dribble?


Sometimes.  It depends on who I'm discoursing with.  Totally ignorant morons tend not to upset me.  But when people that are reasonably intelligent buy into things that are patently rediqulous it can.

Offline VOR

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2313
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2004, 05:11:13 PM »
Quote
US asked our government to send troops to Iraq recently. Yea, right, let's send our boys to die for someone else.



Hristo...familiar with the Brcko district? (Sorry, can't spell it correctly becuase of the US keyboard). My friends and I spent some time there a few years ago and endured mortars, snipers and riots. There's also a  bridge there I'm sure you're probably aware of across the river into Croatia. One of our guys was injured just on the Bosnia side of it with a grenade we *think* was thrown out of a passing car (nobody saw it thrown). Was it a Serb? Bosnian? Croat? Other? Who knows..we weren't especially popular with anyone there. The point? We weren't there for ourselves, we were there for "someone else". Pretty healthy Croat population in Brcko last time I was there.

I'm not saying Croatia should send troops to Iraq. The Albanians are already doing a great job representing the former Yugoslavia anyway. I'm saying you should consider your words a little more carefully before you post them. I want to believe that you don't sincerely mean what you said, but I have my doubts. Oh, by the way, do you think it was freedom fighters that were attacking us? I wonder if they were Muslim, Christain, or something else? Just curious.

Got back from Mosul a little over a month ago (12 month tour) and found out today will prolly go back to Iraq soon. I'll tell the freedom fighters you said hi and that they have your support!  

:lol
« Last Edit: April 08, 2004, 05:17:58 PM by VOR »

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18735
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2004, 05:44:31 PM »
VOR & ty sir
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Rasker

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1265
Insurgents try to hinder progress towards democracy ... really ?
« Reply #74 on: April 08, 2004, 08:16:27 PM »
hmm, sounds like Hristo has lots in common with Senator Kerry:

In an interview broadcast Wednesday morning, Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry defended terrorist Shiite imam Muqtada al-Sadr as a "legitimate voice" in Iraq, despite that fact that he's led an uprising that has killed nearly 20 American GIs in the last two days.

Speaking of al-Sadr's newspaper, which was shut down by coalition forces last week after it urged violence against U.S. troops, Kerry complained to National Public Radio, "They shut a newspaper that belongs to a legitimate voice in Iraq."

In the next breath, however, the White House hopeful caught himself and quickly changed direction. "Well, let me ... change the term 'legitimate.' It belongs to a voice — because he has clearly taken on a far more radical tone in recent days and aligned himself with both Hamas and Hezbollah, which is a sort of terrorist alignment."

But Kerry again seemed to voice sympathy for the Shiite terrorist when asked whether he supported al-Sadr's arrest. "Not if it’s an isolated act without the other kinds of steps necessary to change the dynamics on the ground in Iraq," Kerry told NPR, in quotes first reported by the New York Sun.

"If all we do is make war against the Iraqi people and continue an American occupation, fundamentally, without a clarity as to who and how sovereignty is being turned over, we have a very serious problem for the long run here," Kerry added. "And I think this administration is just walking dead center down into that trap."

On March 28, the U.S.-led coalition authorities closed al-Sadr's newspaper, al-Hawza, for 60 days, the Sun reported. L. Paul Bremer, the chief U.S. administrator in Iraq, charged that the newspaper had published false stories blaming the coalition forces for local acts of terrorism.


Cheer up, maybe we'll be ruled by Euro-crats ourselves after November.