F22 cancellation?

[Capt. Pork]

Originally posted by Nilsen
Actually the norwegian NASAMS is the only system in the world that has a cabability against cruise missiles.

Sounds to me like a fallacy, Nilson.

Visit this site:

Surface to Air missile systems

Pay special attention to the information on the S-400 (sa-20) triumf.

Here's another link:

triumf

"The 9M96E2 missile can intercept all types of aircraft, including tactical ballistic and medium-range theater missiles flying at altitudes from 5 meters to 30 kilometers. Their exceptionally high accuracy is ensured by the missile's main secret, the so-called transverse control engine, which rules out misses during the final approach trajectory. The transverse control engine is still without parallel in the world. Russia's top-of-the-line 9M96E2 guided air defense missile is being marketed by Russia's state-owned arms trader Rosvooruzhenye. A mockup of the missile was set up at an Athens arms exhibition in October 1998."

And another:

FAS

"The missile is equipped with an active homing head and has an estimated single shot kill probability of 0.9 for manned aircraft and 0.8 for unmanned maneuvering aircraft. "

[GRUNHERZ]

The russians would kick bellybutton in any war fought with sales brochures!!!!

[Capt. Pork]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
The russians would kick bellybutton in any war fought with sales brochures!!!!

Don't be a schmuck, Grun, I was merely providing evidence countering Nilson's assertion.

Furthermore, this missile has been tested and fielded, so it's hardly an artists conception.

[Torque]

Actually it was quite humourous.

[leitwolf]

Ok, time to play devil's advocate

By Orig:

New Russian designed SAM systems are not only designed to shoot down aircraft at ranges up to 200+ miles, but they are also designed to actually engage and shoot down any weapons aimed at the SAM site.

It's a bit funny to see a claim like "they got new SAM's we need a better airplane".
What is the defensive system and what is the offensive weapon - the F/A-22 or the S-300 and -400? This looks like reversed logic to me, it's perfectly normal for a country to improve it's air defenses, isn't it? Why is it necessary for the US to destroy a SAM site to begin with?

Just asking, flame on
That being said the F-22 is the best fighter plane today bar none and canceling it makes no sense after having spent so much money on it already. The US needs new airplanes someday in the future to replace the aging fleet of F-16s, F-15s and Tomcats and even a small fleet of Jack-Of-All-Trades F-22s is a better adaptation to todays world than huge amounts of cold-war equipment and a new generation fighter is imho better than spending lots of money on obsolete or older designs ( F-18E/F .. )

[Dead Man Flying]

I doubt McCain seriously plans on eliminating the F-22.  It sounds to me that he was punctuating a point about the unexpected costs of the Iraqi conflict by raising the spectre of cancelling a very visible, very popular, and very expensive project in the F-22.  Since we're discussing his comments here, I'm guessing he at least partially succeeded in making his point.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Swager]

F22 is a money risk for our defense budget.  Just like the New Attack submarine is.  Useless spending.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I doubt McCain seriously plans on eliminating the F-22.  It sounds to me that he was punctuating a point about the unexpected costs of the Iraqi conflict by raising the spectre of cancelling a very visible, very popular, and very expensive project in the F-22.  Since we're discussing his comments here, I'm guessing he at least partially succeeded in making his point.

-- Todd/Leviathn

The answer is no, "read my lips"

[Capt. Pork]

Originally posted by Torque
Actually it was quite humourous.

The spirits of John Candy, Dan Akroyd and Jim Carrey are clearly not with you.

[Ozark]

Buy what you can afford.

How did we win the Cold War? We out spent them on military equipment.

Could it be possible that we defeat ourselves with massive military spending?

[texace]

The Raptor is slated to replace the F-15 and possible the F-18

The F-35 is slated to replace the AV-8B, the F-16, the F-18, and some other aircraft.

Given the F-35 would save more money in the long run than the Raptor, why are we spending money on it again? Of course, it's stealthy and it can supercruise, but all around it's just like the current USAF arsenal...

[Nilsen]

True GS...it has a much shorter range and it is a "point defence" system.

Norwegian NASAMS batteries each consist of:

    * three or four Fire Distribution Centres;
    * three or four Raytheon AN/TPQ-36A surveillance, acquisition and tracking radars;
    *nine truck-mounted missile launchers (with six missiles each)
    *three or four vehicle-mounted passive infrared tracking cameras for visual target identification and raid size assessment.

In this configuration, NASAMS is capable of engaging up to 54 different targets by firing 54 individually-targeted missiles within a matter of seconds. A capability unmatched by any comparable system.

Using a combat net radio, the launchers can be located up to 25km from the FDC, expanding the defended footprint. NASAMS is fully mobile and can be ready-to-fire at a new location 15 minutes after the wheels stop turning.

    * The Norwegian NASAMS systems will likely receive an upgrade in the near future, including:
      - upgrading the radar to the standard of Raytheon's state-of-the-art AN/MPQ-64 Sentinel 3D radar
    * inserting the latest commercial-off-the-shelf computer technology to the FDC
    *integrating the new Kongsberg Multi-Role Radio
    *integration with Kongsberg's Ground Based Air Defence Operations Centre (GBADOC).

Spain is taking delivery of NASAMS systems in 2002-2004. The Spanish systems have the latest technology standard and will each consist of:

    *one AN/MPQ-64 trailer-mounted 3D radar
    *one shelter-mounted Fire Distribution Centre
    *two truck-mounted NASAMS canister launcher units (with six missiles each).

http://www.kongsberg.com/eng/kda/products/Aircraft/sl-amraam/
http://www.kongsberg.com/eng/kda/products/Aircraft/NASAMS/

[Nilsen]

texace..

Isnt the JSF also "stealthy" ?  perhaps not as stealthy as the Raptor but still...

[Replicant]

Originally posted by Nilsen
texace..

Isnt the JSF also "stealthy" ?  perhaps not as stealthy as the Raptor but still...

The JSF is also stealthy, ability to carry 2 x AMRAAM and 2 x 2000lb bombs within internal bomb bays.  I'm not sure if this only applies to the conventional JSF and not the STOVL?

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Capt. Pork
Don't be a schmuck, Grun, I was merely providing evidence countering Nilson's assertion.

Furthermore, this missile has been tested and fielded, so it's hardly an artists conception.

I suggest you drink decaff from now on...