Author Topic: Suicide is painless.... (Read 2790 times)

Voss · « **on:** August 20, 2001, 04:13:00 AM »

I've noticed an awful lot of suicidal F4U's online recently. It seems once the base capture idea takes a grip all we see is wave after wave of suicidal pilots diving in to hit (often) just a single target. So, I took me up an F4U (non-c) and attacked the rook fleet. Three out of four times I got through to sink the cruiser with just a single hog. Too, I found you could de-ack a field with as few as two hogs. Now, this seems a tad too easy for me.

HTC could you revisit this and think things over again? I know the idea is to have fun, but what about the defenders? It should take just a tad more effort, IMHO. Things are so easy now that field captures are a milkrun! Well, okay. A milkrun in the absence of defenders, but even so... suicide? Is this what we've come to?

Too, I would like to see more control added to the fleet. It's very, very hard to guide the fleet in combat. It's very, very hard to guide the fleet from the tower (near coast lines)! Once the CV gets sunk, the fleet should carry forth, too. I think the enemy should have to sink the cruiser too, and it would be nice to have a bigger fleet as well.

Just my two cents.

Unlike the dark side, I see wisdom in the maps that we have. I like the fleets in the islands and mindanao maps, and gv's in the giant lake map. I'm still undecided about the baltic, but I'm working on it!

Hmm, how best to adapt all of the above?...

Ripsnort · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2001, 07:28:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Voss:
Too, I found you could de-ack a field with as few as two hogs. Now, this seems a tad too easy for me.

:

You can de-ack a field with a single hog easily, see my Training films, first one...conservative approach too. Blitz can de-ack a field in a P51D in two passes. As far as ease, I'll let the rest of you pan that out.

JoeMud · « **Reply #2 on:** August 20, 2001, 08:03:00 AM »

Nah they just make it "look" easy.

Animal · « **Reply #3 on:** August 20, 2001, 08:07:00 AM »

I can easily deack a large field and take out the VH and radar with the right fighter aircraft.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #4 on:** August 20, 2001, 08:35:00 AM »

Actually, I took out all acks, ammo, fuel, radar and shot down 3 upping A/C at a small field with a N1K, but...then again, it IS the Uber-N1K.

Tac · « **Reply #5 on:** August 20, 2001, 08:36:00 AM »

Welp, they could remove acks in fields,replace them with 4X 37mm MANNABLE ACKS *no AI* and about 20X .303 AI acks (this is for a small field) that have a 4k range.

It will take time to strafe all these and .303 will not be singlepingkill ack as we have now (which would help cure the running to ack syndrome) and it is sure to be lethal to any plane coming within d4.0 of the field due to the concentration of fire..lethal if they stay inside the ack umbrella for a second or two that is, a fighter would be able to zoom by at hi speed taking hits, maybe losing a flap or so, but not losing the entire airframe to some ungodly golden BB.

The mannable 37mm is there to make things tougher IF the field is defended by manned acks.

[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: Tac ]

Rude · « **Reply #6 on:** August 20, 2001, 09:04:00 AM »

I can get shot down by the ack...does that count?

lazs1 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 20, 2001, 09:23:00 AM »

I actually agree that suicide jabos and such have too much effect on the game. I don't think a field should be made useless by one bomber or several fighters and I don't think one plane should be able to make a carrier fleet useless.

Perhaps the carrier fleets need to have more.... carriers. Maybe fighters need to be available at fields until everything is down and maybe a shorter rebuild time for ack.
lazs

buhdman · « **Reply #8 on:** August 20, 2001, 10:39:00 AM »

You're never going to see an end to this phenomenon in the MA. If you want something different, you need to try the various "one-life" scenarios that are hosted in other arenas regularly.

Buhdman, out

air_guard · « **Reply #9 on:** August 20, 2001, 10:46:00 AM »

can deack two acks then dead !!!
must be me that is a not cheating bastard. !!!!
or a lame online sim dickhead

LePaul · « **Reply #10 on:** August 20, 2001, 11:01:00 AM »

Refer to my post last week, about adding more defenses to the bases. In short, I had suggested that bases have such novel things as a fenceline and anti-tank barricades around them. The best 'mental image' I can give you guys is to recall the footage from D-Day and other invasions. As we are now, once the acks are down, there is nothing to stop the M3's/LVT's from rolling in. It would be cool if there were things even like minefields to make it a wee bit harder for the GVs/M3s to sweep in, and require the help of ordinance-carrying aircraft to blow a hole in the defenses for the GVs to make it in.

Of course the C-47 can fly over all of this, but in the case of CV action, the C47 will have to fly further and thus, more open to enemy aircraft. Heck, at least the M3/LVTs have guns

Again, just ideas to make the base-grabbing a little more challenging, and interesting.

Zippatuh · « **Reply #11 on:** August 20, 2001, 11:06:00 AM »

Give me a D-hog, 2k bombs, 8 rox, 10K altitude, and one other aircraft to run interference and you have a field de-ack’d. Practice has made it easier. It wasn’t always that way.

I don’t do suicide runs. I try and make all my dives with the escape in the right direction. Will I dive through multiple cons to a field? Sure, on one pass on a small field I can get all but one of the fuel tanks and then hot tail it out. I only get burned when I’ve misjudged the direction and energy state of the higher defenders.

People wanna make suicide runs, let ‘em.

Take out the high caliber AI AA and replace it with a larger number of smaller AI AA, don’t know about that. The rate of fire on the smaller weapon would mean a larger number of projectiles. With the increase in the number and rate of fire for the AA it would be like flying through a cheese grader. I don’t think you would just loose a flap here and there. Though it is an interesting suggestion.

Zippatuh

Ripsnort · « **Reply #12 on:** August 20, 2001, 11:30:00 AM »

Your first paragraph, Zip, obviously you've trained too much with VMF-323.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #13 on:** August 20, 2001, 11:55:00 AM »

The new ack model is retarded and dies far too easily.

This trend started in 1.05 with the islands map. Before that ack model I have never been able to deack a whole field, but in the first day of 105 five minutes after the download SUPERFLY and I went to A40. He attacked the VH and I took out all the ack in 3 passes. I have never been able to do this before ever.

With this new 107 easy kill ack model it has gotten even easier. I have been able to deack large bases in 3 or 4 passes sever times. All you do is fly straight at it at moderate hi speeds kill 2-4 acks as possible then extend straight out and repeat.

A singlge fighter MUST NOT be able to deack a whole field, this is simply ridiculous.

The new ack also has some stupid accuracy ideas. For example I have sen nikis and spits do something like 4 or 5 full turns inside field boundaries with all the ack up and firing at them without taking hits og getting killed. While high speed attackers who attempt turns are shot easily.

Another issue are low level bombers. B17/lancs/26 can come in alone and low within ack range and come out with only a fuel leak or engine oil smoke. One would think with all those 40mm and 20mm ack they would score a few fatal hits but they dont.

The total effect of this? Well its that every field attack turns into an instavulch 30 seconds after it begins as all thack is killed by a single plane.

Your experience may vary.

HTC please take some time in 108 development to rethink this ack model, at least return it to the less retarded 105 model though many people I have asked in the MA think the best balanced ack model was the pre 105 pre CV style as used on the old MA map and the beta maps.

AKcurly · « **Reply #14 on:** August 20, 2001, 12:07:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
The new ack model is retarded and dies far too easily.

Not completely true, Grun. If the mannable positions are not manned, hell, they're not firing at you. The reason fields seem to be easy to deack is that frequently, 3 of the ack positions (unmanned) aren't firing!

While it is true that one skillful pilot can deack a field, even if the 3 positions are manned, most guys can't do it.

AKcurly