Climbrates

[fd ski]

Kats - FEEL is the main word of this conversation.

Let's have a little execise:

Tell me how your car FEELS when you drive it. You are not allowed to make comparisons to any other cars - because you haven't driven any before ok ?

Tell me how it FEELS. Give me enough data to allow be to build a simulation....

See my point ?

It's ok Kitty... i know you only want to get me going.   Love ya too....


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Bartlomiej Rajewski
S/L fd-ski Sq. 303 (Polish) "Kosciuszko" RAF
   www.raf303.org  

[wells]

Fdski,

Something 'feels' the way it does because of the physical properties of the object, be it a car/plane/whatever.  Those properties can be modelled in a sim, although I agree with you that a simulation shouldn't be used as a basis for accuracy without knowing the inner workings of the sim.

[Hristo]

0.44 rate of climb for 109 has improved....sort of  

Seems that optimal climb speed is 165 mph IAS. There was no visible difference in VSI when changing from the best climb speed to climb speed of 165 mph IAS.

10k RoC:

100% fuel, 100% throttle: 3000 fpm -> 3200 fpm
 25% fuel, 100% throttle: 3500 fpm -> 3650 fpm


20k RoC

100% fuel, 100% throttle: 2500 fpm -> 2650 fpm
 25% fuel, 100% throttle: 3000 fpm -> 3100 fpm


 

[juzz]

Very oddly, the 0.44 Bf109G-10(clean) climbs right on the numbers for a G-6/R6(+2x20mm). Climbs with 100% power to 18700ft in 6 minutes. Top speed on 100% power at 22k is ~405mph. With WEP it does 437mph at 22k. Hmmm, just what's going on here... is it too heavy, or doesn't it have enough power?

Does anyone have numbers for how much the MG151/20 gondolas take off the top speed? (real figures, not AH  )

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 01-04-2000).]

[fd ski]

 

Very oddly, the 0.44 Bf109G-10(clean) climbs right on the numbers for a G-6/R6(+2x20mm). Climbs with 100% power to 18700ft in 6 minutes. Top speed on 100% power at 22k is ~405mph. With WEP it does 437mph at 22k. Hmmm, just what's going on here... is it too heavy, or doesn't it have enough power?

Are you saying that G6R6 could do 437 mph at 22k ?
Last i checked top speed for G6 clean with no boosts was in 390 mph range. R6 would be somewhat slower.

Also, R6 would not climb to 20k in 6 minutes without boost.

Where do you get that data ?

Just curious...


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Bartlomiej Rajewski
S/L fd-ski Sq. 303 (Polish) "Kosciuszko" RAF
   www.raf303.org  

[juzz]

OK.

All the numbers I've ever seen for the Bf109G-6 say climb to 9840ft in 2.9, 18700 in 6 minutes, top speed 386 mph, AND - armament of 2xMG131, 1xMK108 or 1xMG151, and 2xMG151 gondolas.

Eric Brown flight tested a Bf109G-6/U4(Werk-Nr. 41 2951) and recorded a top speed of 384mph. All the photos I've seen of this plane show it fitted with - surprise - 2xMG151 gondolas, plus a bombrack on the centreline. The gondolas only cause a loss of 2mph? - I think not.

AFDU comparitive trials of Spitfire LF IX vs Bf109G-6 show the LF IX(using both 18 and 25lbs boost) as being 7mph faster than the G-6 at heights over 15k. The top speed of the LF IX is 404mph at 21k.

So I figure, all those numbers are actually for the Bf109G-6/R6 The Bf109G-6/R6 would do 386mph, but a clean G-6 would do something closer to 400mph I think.

(Disclaimer: of course, I could be wrong...)

Either way, the Bf109G-10 still climbs too slow without WEP.  

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When the light was right it was actually possible to see the 30mm(1.18ins) shells in flight. - Heinrich Beauvais(Test Pilots, W.Späte).

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 01-04-2000).]