Author Topic: Otto...err... AI gunners? Any update as to when they'll appear? (Read 1316 times)

Sascha JG 77 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 06, 1999, 07:37:00 AM »

Some of the greatest moments that I experienced in AW 2 and 3 were buff missions in fully crewed B-17s. Especially with AW 3's excellent voice comm: Ain't nothing like a couple of gunners going nuts over the intercomm when they spot attacking Focke Wulfs.
In WB I hardly ever had a human gunner on board / gunned for someone because of Otto. Why would anyone invite a gunner when

A) That guy might disco and crash your system as well

B) The automatic gunner is better than any human anyway?

I think we should try w/out Otto first and give buff pilots the ability to man their own guns if they took off without gunners.

If it really doesn't work out, let the guys at HTC start worrying about Otto then, but please make him realistic: High G-loads and tight maneuvers should throw his aim off and handing over a target from one gun position to the next should take some time.

Coding auto gunners takes time and HTC's resources are limited. I think right now there are more important issues to solve than to implement Otto, like working on the strategy model, cranking out new planes (where's my Würger!?) and squashing bugs.

Sascha JG 77 "Herz As!"

[This message has been edited by Sascha JG 77 (edited 10-06-1999).]

Trips · « **Reply #16 on:** October 08, 1999, 12:52:00 PM »

hitech wrote:

Quote

Im going to try going with out auto on buffs. But you will be able to jump to gunner position as a pilot. Simply depending on other people to gun dosn't work very well.

If I might make a suggestion... typically a buff will have more gun positions than live gunners aboard. Suppose a gun position gets destroyed by a fighter, instead of "killing" the player and putting him back in the tower, just move him to the "observer" position and allow him to remain in the buff and take up another available gun position?

Opinions?

Trips

hitech · « **Reply #17 on:** October 08, 1999, 01:09:00 PM »

I like that idea trips.

HiTech

Hans · « **Reply #18 on:** October 08, 1999, 10:18:00 PM »

I was hoping for automatic guns....sorta.

What I want is automatic and seemless switching between top and bottom turret positions too. Your target is diving on you from above and your shooting up at him with the top turret, but when he passes and dives below you you tilt the top turret down and boom, your suddenly in the bottom turret. A 360 degree rotating turret with a 180 tilt. Killing the gunners just knocks out the gun, but not the gunner position. You could still use the top turret to aim the rest of the plane's guns, but the dead turret itself won't fire.

As a side benefit it would be nice if any other guns on the plane would shoot too if they are in the same field of fire. Shooting the top turret up and to the side will also fire the waist gunner's weapon too.

The only real drawback I see is the need for any human gunner tag-alongs (don't need them in this setup).

Hans.

SC-GreyBeard · « **Reply #19 on:** October 09, 1999, 02:47:00 AM »

hmmm some good suggestions.
HOWEVER....

How many of you ever heard of a bomber going on a known combat run that was not fully gunned??? Hell, they pulled cooks and mechanics when they didn't have enuff rated gunners for full crews.

While I appreciate everyones disdain for "otto" and even fully dislike the low level
"ack wagons", as much as any ftr. pilot,

Buffs need to be gunned.. Period..
if not by live gunners, then otto.

I've flown them in AW, and the chance of getting live gunners, that will stay for entire flight, to be blunt, SUK!!

Perhaps "otto" could be given a rating.. the more flights survived, the better the acuracy. (starting with a very nominal accuracy rating to start.. real nominal).(MUCH less than yer current field AAA..)

and just having the pilot being able to jump from gun to gun is not enuff. (nuthing like a slow level flying target for a buff hunter...)

Just my couple centavos worth of thought.
No offense intended...

------------------
GreyBeard
Flight Commander, Aces High
Skeleton Crew

Mark Luper · « **Reply #20 on:** October 09, 1999, 11:00:00 AM »

I agree with Greybeard,
Most buff runs are solo runs. In real life bombers flew in huge formations with all guns manned.
Trips idea was a good one and would make it easier to man your own guns, but regardless of how good that system is, the buffer does not have the advantage of the fighter pilot. Regardless of how accurate WB made the otto gunners, I always managed to find a way to shoot them down. It took practice and wasn't always easy, but it was doable.
I just hate to think of spending 40 min getting to altitude and having it all blown away by the fact I did not have a human gunner that was there or good enough. I know I always suck at gunning on a bomber, and getting good trained gunners is going to be like trying to find hen's teeth regardless of how willing those persons are.

My vote is for an optional otto with reasonable accuracy and not a super man who can fire under any aircraft attitude or maneuver. I am also willing to let him be disabled near the fields, however, I've been shot down landing a long sortie.

Time won't cost you anymore $$'s, but when you have a limited amount of time to fly a buff sortie, why have it blown away because of the lack of otto? Another point brought out by glars, how many are going to self man the guns on final IP especially if a complicated norden system is implemented? With the current norden it's not a problem, if we have to adjust one manualy then loose our adjustments to man a gun then that would cause a frustrating and time consuming problem for the guy looking for his particular level of immersion .

No matter which way it's done, not everyone is going to be happy. Most fighter jocks want an easy kill on a buff, most buffers want a deadly fortress

.

MarkAT

Ping · « **Reply #21 on:** October 09, 1999, 03:24:00 PM »

Trips made a very good suggestion as to having gunners mooved to another spot when their position is killed...I would like to add another.
when live gunners are on board and the pilot is killed...let him die , BUT, notify the crew that it has happened with a host message so as to allow a gunner to man the left seat.
Ping

iculus · « **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 1999, 07:54:00 AM »

I think that having human gunners is a *great* idea. The only problems that I see with 1 gunner on board, is when lining up on target, you are totally preoccupied with the bombsight. The other problem is when there is more than 1 con...you can't be in the tail and in the nose at the same time.

Of course this requires that an AI gunner gets programmed, but what if only one auto gunner is allowed on the flight?...that is AI can only use one gun station at a time.

Thanks,
iculus

iculus · « **Reply #23 on:** October 10, 1999, 07:59:00 AM »

Ping,

You have a great idea... I got really frustrated in WB after flying a B-17 for 30 minutes, and getting the "one ping pilot kill". Letting a crew member take over is much more realistic.

IC

RASTER · « **Reply #24 on:** October 13, 1999, 05:09:00 AM »

In WB's, a straight and level bomb run without gunners is much different from jumping all over the sky. Surviving without guns was not that hard as long as one didn't do any bombing. Would like to suggest that the ackstar problem be solved now before the truely bitter and long lasting anger starts ruining a good time. I know of players in WB's who were removed from the game when some angry ackstar shouting starting. Think, this is happening too often in WB's now and the problem should be solved in AH, in some way that will prevent the problem starting ...PERIOD.

RASTER