Buffs

[Mister Fork]

Hitech - a possible quick fix for AHII...

1400 yards is the lethal zone for any buff formation.  I set my bomber convergences to max (600-650?) and it's quite easy to snag a fighter at that distance just by leading the fire to his aircraft.  That is highly unrealistic and very 'gamey' play, but we're all guilty of it.   Inside that zone, even at ranges 600-900 yards, most shots have a dispersion of 5-10 feet. It may look like a wide dispersion, but you may have two buffs a hundred yards left or right either side, but the dispersion is almost nil when it reaches the target.

Perhaps the easy way to simulate the dispersion is to shorten the buff gunners convergence to say 100-300 to simulate the real life challenges of all buffs and lock them in at that setting (players can't change it).  For fixed nose guns, like the B-26's or Apache's, you should be able to set, but for gun turrets and waist gunners - locking in a shortened convergence could easily resolve this issue.

Another option is to disable external views for buffs in the MA.  Make it more realistic for buff pilots and gunners to figure out where those enemy planes are by looking through the window ports.

Maybe a combination of the two will help reduce the laser tagging the bomber formations are currently capable of?  Fixed low convergence to increase dispersion plus turning off external view for buffs.

When I get home from work, I'm going to experiment in the Training Arena with the convergence and come up with a figure that makes sense.  Did you want me to get back 2 u with the results or do you have another idea?

[SKurj]

Originally posted by Mister Fork
Hitech - a possible quick fix for AHII...

1400 yards is the lethal zone for any buff formation.  I set my bomber convergences to max (600-650?) and it's quite easy to snag a fighter at that distance just by leading the fire to his aircraft.  That is highly unrealistic and very 'gamey' play, but we're all guilty of it.   Inside that zone, even at ranges 600-900 yards, most shots have a dispersion of 5-10 feet. It may look like a wide dispersion, but you may have two buffs a hundred yards left or right either side, but the dispersion is almost nil when it reaches the target.

Perhaps the easy way to simulate the dispersion is to shorten the buff gunners convergence to say 100-300 to simulate the real life challenges of all buffs and lock them in at that setting (players can't change it).  For fixed nose guns, like the B-26's or Apache's, you should be able to set, but for gun turrets and waist gunners - locking in a shortened convergence could easily resolve this issue.

Another option is to disable external views for buffs in the MA.  Make it more realistic for buff pilots and gunners to figure out where those enemy planes are by looking through the window ports.

Maybe a combination of the two will help reduce the laser tagging the bomber formations are currently capable of?  Fixed low convergence to increase dispersion plus turning off external view for buffs.

When I get home from work, I'm going to experiment in the Training Arena with the convergence and come up with a figure that makes sense.  Did you want me to get back 2 u with the results or do you have another idea?

No...

Why cripple the buffs?  Ok some complain they are too lethal, well what chance did one fighter have of downing one bomber of a 3 ship box, let alone the 3 they can kill now?

One fighter killing 3 buffs in a formation in a couple of passes is just as ridiculous as 1 fighter even trying...

Leave the buffs alone, or make them tougher and make it even harder for one fighter to sweep a 3 ship box.

I just don't understand people wanting buffs easier kills for a SINGLE attacker...   2 or 3 fighters minimum should be required to tackle a formation.


My thots...


SKurj

[Taiaha]

I think we can probably all agree that the bomber gunnery isn't that realistic.  From time to time somebody posts that series of clips taken from Luftwaffe gun cameras--if you look over those you'll see that the vast majority of them are attacks from the dead six position.  Some of them are against isolated ships, probably already separated from their formation and damaged, but others are against ships in formation.  Obviously the attacking fighters survived.

But if we're to open the realism can of worms (again) there would be a lot of other things to consider.  In that great description of a Luftwaffe attack above, it emphasizes one of the things that many 190 pilots commented upon--the protection afforded by that radial engine (and the fact that the cockpit was set low down and close behind it).  That  is something that isn't modelled in AH at all (nor is any kind of realistic engine behavior for that matter).

Personally, however, I don't have much truck with whining about how hard it is to shoot down buffs.  Against most people it's a matter of patience.  Against a good gunner you really have to bring your A-game, and it's a dicey deal, sure.  However, it does help if you pick the right tool for the job.  A Yak 9T is a great can opener, for example!

[lasersailor184]

P47.  Come in faster and about 1k below the buff.  Just when you get almost straight under it, pull up and fire through the wingtip.

He'll go down everytime.


Rinse, repeat.

[Flyboy]

Originally posted by SKurj
No...

Why cripple the buffs?  Ok some complain they are too lethal, well what chance did one fighter have of downing one bomber of a 3 ship box, let alone the 3 they can kill now?

One fighter killing 3 buffs in a formation in a couple of passes is just as ridiculous as 1 fighter even trying...

Leave the buffs alone, or make them tougher and make it even harder for one fighter to sweep a 3 ship box.

I just don't understand people wanting buffs easier kills for a SINGLE attacker...   2 or 3 fighters minimum should be required to tackle a formation.


My thots...


SKurj

skurj, i agree with you 100% its too easy to shoot down the buffs, infact its too eazy too shoot down all the planes in AH.
but this is due to dammage moddel (or lack of it).

since when a short burst of 0.5cals clips the entire rear fuselage from 600yards ?

but this is not the point of this topic. (btw i dont see why a spitfire wont be able to shoot down 3 Ju88s they did it in the war.)

the point is that a decent gunner in a buff formation can make them become death stars. shooing down or dammaging in coming cons from 1000yards