Passive MANPAD defense

[Chairboy]

Interesting story:
http://cbsnewyork.com/topstories/local_story_124152025.html

I think this is excellent, the more people who buy the technology, the cheaper it'll end up getting.  One thing I'm concerned about though is that this will only work against IR tracking MANPADs.  I know how to build a guidance/tracking head for an anti-aircraft missile from off the shelf parts (less then $400) that would be immune to this type of jamming.

Just for clairification, I'm talking about the complete package with guidance, proximity detection, and it could even hit a plane dropping flares.  No radar.  And for this low price, it could even have active guidance fins.  All it would need is a rocket+warhead to be attached to.

If I can do it, then others can too.

[Furious]

build me one.

[newtype]

I dont believe anyone who says he can build a guided missile. Its alot more difficult than programming  bar coder which is just reading bits off the serial port. Next your gona say you can make it water proof.

[Tuomio]

Guidance system to work in IR noisy evinroment which real world is needs lots of filters for the sensors. No sun and definetly no flares, i dont believe you if you tell otherwise.

You would also need gyroscope for knowing your orientation, so you could utilize the fins for turning. Gyro for high G:s is not a simple task.

[Chairboy]

Negative, the reason it can be built with off the shelf components is because of some recent things for the robot crowd that have been released.  My method doesn't use IR, it uses contrast, so if you can SEE the plane, then it can guide itself to it.

The CMUCam2 can track an object and control servos to keep itself pointed at the target:

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~cmucam2/

The only thing missing from the CMUCam as sold is proportional steering, and THAT could be done using a cheap PIC based microprocessor getting targetting data from the CMUCam.

IR noise isn't terribly important when you're doing visual tracking.  If it is, then you can leverage existing polarizing filters.  Visual tracking Sidewinders have been demonstrated, and the AIM-9X uses a combination of IR and visual tracking for effectiveness in bad weather, night, etc.  Since this only needs to work during the day, visual only is fine.

Saying that it just can't be done is a bit shortsighted.

BTW, using R/C servos for rocket control is not new, plenty of sunseekers already do it, so no gyros needed.  If you wanted to improve effectiveness, you add a $50 piezo gyro platform and feed the control data through a PIC microprocessor.  Still less then $250 in parts.

[newtype]

A 2d matrix of data provides less information than a radar signature which gives range speed altitude and is not so different than an IR signature which provides more contrast. Whats to say that it cant be spoofed like IR can?

I dont know anything, Im just arguing for the sake of it.

[Chairboy]

It can definately be spoofed, I'm just suggesting that the passive defense systems (which are better then nothing, for sure) won't spoof it unless they can make it actually look like the plane is visually somewhere else.

[Sandman]

This article left me with more questions than answers.

Lot's of buzzwords, but no real meat to the article. What kind of defense system? Who makes it?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by newtype
A 2d matrix of data provides less information than a radar signature which gives range speed altitude and is not so different than an IR signature which provides more contrast. Whats to say that it cant be spoofed like IR can?

I dont know anything, Im just arguing for the sake of it.

yes you are correct it would be hard to program to "predict" were the target is going to be 3 seconds from now based on logical flight path so in essence you'd be "chasing" the target.

BUT,

most airliners that would utilize this tech wouldnt even know if they were fired on.  So no avoidance.

BUT,

what would you use for a warhead.  Airliners may be huge and have alot of moving parts but they are HUGE.  You'd have to definatly hit a "sweet spot" to bring one down.

[AdmRose]

Why don't the jammers make the missile circle around and hit the poor sucker who fired it? I'd buy that for the sheer entertainment value.

[Creamo]

Originally posted by Chairboy
I know how to build a guidance/tracking head for an anti-aircraft missile from off the shelf parts (less then $400) that would be immune to this type of jamming.

Just for clairification, I'm talking about the complete package with guidance, proximity detection, and it could even hit a plane dropping flares.  No radar.  And for this low price, it could even have active guidance fins.  All it would need is a rocket+warhead to be attached to.

If I can do it, then others can too.

Um, sure. You going to launch it from your Mechwarrior Halloween suit?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Creamo
Um, sure. You going to launch it from your Mechwarrior Halloween suit?

actually him and LePaul (sorry for this btw)  are going to launch it from the R2D2 while driving around in their xwing car.

[Chairboy]

Originally posted by Creamo
Um, sure. You going to launch it from your Mechwarrior Halloween suit?

Heh, no working weaponry on the Mk I suit.

I have no plans on building this.  I have no interest in adding a Guantanamo Bay stamp to my passport.  I merely use it as an example of what the future entails.  IR jamming is a good start, but we shouldn't rest on our laurels because the next threat is around the corner.  If the cost of installing these defenses stays at the 2+ million $$ mark, then maybe...  maybe it's not worth it since it'll only work for a little.   ?

[Sandman]

Not passive, but...

TADIRCM

LAIRCM