Flaps!

[Max]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Well, probably out of all the fighters in AH, the P-38 is the most dependent on the flaps.  I know you already know this but the P-38 is surprisingly nimble at slow speeds due to its flaps.  Get a P-38 pilot that is good and he can dance with a Spitfire or N1K2 all day long and that's because the pilot knows how to work the flaps.  That's why I say if you want to learn how to use the flaps properly in combat situations, the P-38 is the best plane to do it in.  Lessons learned in the P-38 will carry over to other planes.



ack-ack

Ack ack I could use a bit of help here when it comes to the P-38, flaps and turnfighting. Morpheus, feel free to jump in here too. Most of my experience in a Forky is limited to Jabo runs. When I do get caught low and light, flaps seem to hurt more than help. Let me explain. Say I'm 3K and co-E with a Spit 9. My intention of course is to outturn him and bring guns to bear. At which point I drop a notch of flaps, I usually find myself on the edge of a stall and slower than the Spit. I'm told that the 38 wants to turn nose low, but if I get down to the deck with no manuever room, I'm a gonner. The more flaps I deploy, I more sluggish the ac feels. In the end, I'm either outturned and killed, or stall and flatspin into the dirt. What am I doing wrong?

DmdMax

[Morpheus]

Well spits are tricky, the 9 is a pain in the arse to E fight sometimes because they can climb very well. So turn fighting them is the only option you have sometims. In my opinion with the 38, as with the 51, the more flaps you can use the better. With Rudder and full flaps and keeping your nose up you can roll in the 38 at almost walking speed. Thats what wins the fights for me. Its just keeping them and their guns away from you until you can get a shot on one or more of their over shoots.

They can also chop throttle and hit flaps to stick with you in your turns at which point if you dont take other actions you and that big tail on your 38 will soon be shot off. But thats for another day.

Here is a film that I got a few weeks back while fighting a spit9. I hardly ever film anything. And I dont know what made me turn it on this time but I did and it turned out to be a very close fight. (It had me sweeting anyways)  Film

Alot of what you'll see in the film is me giving shots to him that I know he can't make due to his angle of attack and the angle that I am bringing my plane at. Some shots are close, others are not so close. In any case its a gamble and one that you need to be almost certain that you will come out on top before you take it.

When it comes down to it, dog fightings is hardly ever about trying to "out turn" the other plane. Rather I find its more about angles and trying to get a good angle on him. Whatch the film and if ya got any questions feel free to ask.

[Max]

Thanks Morf - I'll give the film a watch

DmdMax

[TequilaChaser]

deleted

[Morpheus]

TC, Dont misunderstand what I am trying to get across here. I am aware what turn fighting is. But far too often people make a direct connection to winning or losing a fight by trying to out turn another plane. What I mean by that is they think because they turn harder, faster, shaper they are going to win. That is hardly ever the case. Also, before you made that comment you should have took into concideration what plane we are talking about here. The P38 will never flat out turn a spit9 at any speed. But if you take the weakness's of the spit and use it to the 38s advantage you will be far better off.

If you read on in my post I do indeed go on to talk about creating angles and creating shots. But I hardly ever get a shot by turning with an A/C. Rather most shots are made by cutting directly to where the A/C is headed.

lol... Naturally You must turn to create angles but you dont create angles in flat turns and trying to follow your oponents around hopping to pull your nose up to get a shot..

When It comes down to it... If you get in a 38, try to do nothing but flat turns and pull the nose around with flat turns you are going to die. Its as simple as that.

It is nearly imposible to tell someone "How" to fight. There are just too many variables to add up and deal with during any given fight that will never allow one fight to be like the next. I say this because the point I am getting at is judgment, and how you use it. Every move you make is a direct relfection and reaction of your opponents. There is no other way to put it.

I am not trying to pose as a "P38 Ace". I am simply telling someone what works for me. Not once in a while and not sometimes, what consistantly works.

[TequilaChaser]

deleted

[Morpheus]

TC you didnt have to delete what you wrote. What you said brought up good points. I think you just misunderstood me is all. Or maybe we misunderstood eachother?

In any case its hot as can be and I need to go fire up the AC

I think its safe to say Summer is here

[Morpheus]

TC,
I got your email.

The Damned are lucky they got ya sir.

BIG

[Max]

Ditto That Morf...
The Damned are blessed with a majority of very fine people and damned good sticks...TC is at the top of the crop.

DmdMax

[TequilaChaser]

sorry couldn't reply sooner, noticed my email for the BBS was 2 years out of date, then changed it, then couldn't post til got new email to verify the new one...

[jetb123]

the flaps on the 38 really work i love that plane now!:aok

[jetb123]

Morph plese get rid of that avatar i can barly write when i see it lol its great thoguh.