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Author Topic: Can't hit a barn with the 109!  (Read 1480 times)

Offline gofaster

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« on: May 27, 2004, 08:57:35 AM »
What's the secret?  I was doing ok in the 109 in AH1, but can't hit squat in AH2.  I flew the G6, G2, G10, and F last night and got 0wn3d by Tempests and Spits and such.  I completely missed a shot on a F4U-4.

Did the ROF change to be slower?

Did the ballistics get that much worse?
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Offline Zanth

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2004, 09:16:26 AM »
I can't hit a deflection shot with 109 (been using the F model w/o gondolas) to save my life.   I think it's because the gunsite sits low and if you are pulling any +G's you just cant see what's happening.   Where you need to land the bullets is below the nose and out of your view.  

Was on 6 of a spit a pony and a niki (3 different fights) for quite a while and was ineffective to the point of frustration.  Then I gave up trying for deflection and started saving my ammo for neutral G shots I actually managed to kill a couple of planes.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2004, 09:18:31 AM by Zanth »
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Offline Eagler

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2004, 09:19:54 AM »
it feels to me that any rudder input greatly effects your shots now

like it swings the nose out 45deg or something
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Offline Edbert

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2004, 09:32:38 AM »
I haven't flown the 109 yet in AH2 but I think these statements are true for nearly all planes. High speed, high angle, long range shots are all much harder now. We're gonna have to get used to getting in close and sticking onto the guy for the quick dispatch. I fear even more stick-stirring and fish-flopping.
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Offline Zanth

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2004, 09:56:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
it feels to me that any rudder input greatly effects your shots now

like it swings the nose out 45deg or something


Rudder ssems to be a lot more of a factor to me too.  A "twisty" stick isn't very good for me anymore.  I turned off the rudder and hooked up some old flight training rudder pedals and now I am much happier in gunnery and slow manuvers are more steady.
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Offline Batz

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2004, 10:03:10 AM »
My rudder seems to grab (ch pro peds) and swing a bit more.  I may need to adjust my sliders.

In tight turn fights I found it hard to land the same shots I could in AH1. It may just be a matter of adjustment.

In the mean time instead of pulling gs and firing I try to set up shots where I  can unload gs.

FYI when I moved my head positions over  from AH1 I found I had to hit home and re save my forward view as it was off. You might check that.
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Offline fluffy

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2004, 11:02:59 AM »
I thought I was shooting blanks in AH2 too until I realized that I was moving my stick too much while firing and this was totally dispersing my fire.  When I started holding my plane real steady I started hitting again.  This rules out a lot of snap shooting that you can get away with in AH1, but there is no question that it is more realistic.
Reading books like 'Fly For Your Life' (bio of Bob Tuck) shows us that real life pilots were taught to check their turn/bank indicators before opening fire to make sure they weren't slipping/skidding - which would cause them to miss. AH2 reflects this reality more closely.

Plus - not seeing hit flashes through the dash really affects turn fights a lot for me (and I expect everyone else too).  The folks most likely to  feel the pain here are turn fighters (zero, la-7 -5, spitV, n1k) because that hits them in their greatest strength.
As usual - people will develop the skills to adapt to the new more realistic conditions.
- Twang
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Offline JustJim

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2004, 11:03:39 AM »
OK I feel better now,  I'm not the only one contemplating suicide thinking I suck in a 109 all of a sudden.

thats a big relief, thanks guys I thought I was going insane.

On another note i've been getting killed by some rediculas lead shots in a high G turn lately, not sure how they are pulling that off.



JustJim1
III/Jabostaffel
« Last Edit: May 27, 2004, 11:06:11 AM by JustJim »
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Offline gofaster

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2004, 02:40:45 PM »
We should call this the "109 Veteran Support Group" or something. :p

Thanks for the info about the bank/slip and rudder.  I'll also have to adjust my forward view (thanks for that idea!).

The first time I heard the leading edge slats popping in and out, I thought I was getting shot by small arms fire.
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Offline GScholz

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2004, 02:50:46 PM »
I don't have problems with the gunnery in AHII. I do what I've always done in the 109: Get really close, punch my spinner through his canopy and pull the trigger. Gets 'em every time! ;)
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Offline dsrtrat

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2004, 02:56:41 PM »
MORE REALISM!!!! MUAHAHAHAHHAHA Love it.

KEEP IT UP HT!!!!
Can't wait until he can model a 3G turn so you feel it in your chair:)
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Offline Gruuug

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2004, 03:25:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
I don't have problems with the gunnery in AHII. I do what I've always done in the 109: Get really close, punch my spinner through his canopy and pull the trigger. Gets 'em every time! ;)


Same with the 0s.  Set convergence at 200 yards, get closer than that in a tight turn and shoot at his engine.

All your shots will hit between the cockpit and tail.

But it is a lot harder to hit on the turn if you are farther away.  In AH1 it was easy.  Now the more nimble fighters are a little better as they can out-turn the enemy's ability to lead on them....
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Offline Waffle

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2004, 03:50:34 PM »
From my understanding, Any plane with leading edge slats on them were not very good gun platforms when in turns or when slats extended. Very unstable.
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Offline GScholz

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2004, 04:17:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
From my understanding, Any plane with leading edge slats on them were not very good gun platforms when in turns or when slats extended. Very unstable.


Horse exhaust! (as AKIron put it ;))

Only at low airspeeds or very high G at medium speeds would the slats deploy in turns. Nothing unstable with it. Nearly every post-war fighter has slats like the 109 (Handley-Page). Of course nowadays they're computer controlled.
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Offline Waffle

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Can't hit a barn with the 109!
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2004, 05:11:58 PM »
Of course at slow speeds...lol


Hope they are not coming out at high speeds....

Still unstable in slow turns, esecially when only one deploys or they are staggered deployment depending on what ever you're trying to get your aircraft to do.
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