Author Topic: Why not HO?  (Read 976 times)

Offline Widewing

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Why not HO?
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2004, 07:41:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
lol. Well, I like the lala.  How would he like it if I came out and said that the people flying 38s are skilles HOers  (SlapShot not included, lol) and that after they miss the HO, they go into a zoom clime trying to figure out what to do next?  

I've been HOed by all types of planes and had planes run from me.  Its not fair making statements like that.  Some peope are new, some are out of fuel, some low on amo, and some may be running because fo their score, and some cause HO is the only thing they know.  Its not fair puting everyone in the same category and exclude yourself just because you fly a different plane.


Ok, I was being too general, however......

Unfair? I'm simply stating what I have observed. Don't take it personally. You may be very skilled in the La-7, or you may be just one of the vast sucking horde who probably require an escort to the crapper. I don't know and I'm not going to speculate.

For the record, I spend a lot of time in the Training Arena teaching new guys what little I know, in the hope that they will come to the MA with enough understanding to be decent pilots from day one. It's always rewarding to see their handles in the text box having landed a nice group of kills.

There are exceptions to every rule, but the overwhelming majority of La-7 drivers fly it because they can't survive in anything with less speed. And the thing is, Lavochkins are great fighters. However, many of the guys flying it use it as a crutch, rather than learning how to compete.

We all know the drill: HO, reverse, HO, reverse, until they burn off their E. Then they flip-flop around until they get dispatched.

If it wasn't a chosen vulch ride for noobs, it probably would have a negative kill ratio due to the way it is used. In fact, if you look at the kill ratios against some of the other aircraft, you might be shocked.

Against the La-7:

FM-2 - 1.07/1
Fw 190A-5 - 1.46/1
Fw 190D-9 - 1.29/1
Hurri IIC - 1.13/1
La-5FN - 1.07/1
P-40E - 1.27/1
P-47D-11 - 1.29/1
Seafire - 1.05/1
Typhoon - 1.15/1

And there are several dead heats, including the Bf 109s, and even the Ki-61. All perk fighters have huge kill ratios against the La-7. Indeed, the 320 mph FM-2 has a better overall kill to death ratio than the La-7, with the P-40E not far behind (1.05/1 overall).

We know that the La-7 is the best non-perked fighter in the plane set. It should have a kill ratio far better than it does.

If you would like a clarification, I'd simply apply my observations to 95% of the La-7s I encounter and be spot on the money.

By the way, if you have to pause and think about what you need to do (as in zooming up while one ponders), you will likely die anyway. You should have that worked out before you commit.

To those guys who the fly the La-7 because it's their life insurance, I suggest flying something slow. Something like the P-40, F4F or even the A-20G. They won't out-run anyone and they'll have to learn how to survive. Then, when they return to the La-7, they might actually be someone to reckon with and HOs will be the last thing they'll be doing. Or, they can just continue padding the scores of the guys who do know how to fight.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline kj714

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Why not HO?
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2004, 08:05:47 PM »
quoting Steve:

"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It takes Two to HO!
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This is patently wrong. Incorrect. not right, not true, false, a misconception... etc."



quoting Slapshot:

"A true HO is when both planes have a guns solution on each other. Anything outside of that .. its a deflection shot for the one that has a guns solution."

Which one of these guys is right?

I've always been of the opinion it takes two as well, except for the unlucky mishaps, that's why I don't understand the whinage on CH.1 about HO's. I've never been in one yet that I didn't choose to forgo a little seperation, except for a couple outright accidental collisions.

The guys that always say something like "you loser, I was coming right at you and you HO'd me" crack me up.

Offline TequilaChaser

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Why not HO?
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2004, 09:25:26 PM »
In Steve's Quote:  actually it takes 2 planes to have a head on solution, but only requires 1 plane to aquire a Head On shot .


In SlapShots Quote: Yes a True HO is where both planes have a firing solution on the other plane.

Alot of people assume a HO is HO when they see the guy firing at them when merging nose to nose, even if they are not in a direct line with each other.

so both guys are right in their own assumptions.

In my opinion anything within  say a 20 degree cone, can be considered a near HO if not a HO.  but that is how I was taught from them old geezers from long ago,

:D

Heck, just pay/bribe Hitech to turn off Head On Shots or make it where it is on  a randomizer type deal where you may receive a counted shot 1 out of every 30 or so. This way  maybe the guys that rely on the HO aspect so much will actually try to learn how to manuever his plane for the kill.

either way,  my skilless dweeb arse will be glad to help anyone who may want to learn a better way than the ole mighty HO road you maybe on at the moment.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2004, 09:27:47 PM by TequilaChaser »
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Offline Steve

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Why not HO?
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2004, 09:38:55 PM »
My point is simple.  It takes two to merge, only one to make in an HO.
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Offline airbumba

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Why not HO?
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2004, 10:23:58 PM »
Of course bombers are the exception. The high attacking HO was the best way we found to attack B17 bombers streams during the Ruhr scenario. Well, I'm counting the 11 and 1 o'clock positions  in the HO catagory as well. But you better be fast.
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Offline dedalos

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Why not HO?
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2004, 08:18:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Ok, I was being too general, however......


I guess I over reacted.  Kind of tired about the MA lala whines.  However, I have seen what you describe done by 190s F4Us P38s P51s etc.  Enything faster than me at the time of the engagement.  It seems that when a lala does it people get more vocal about it.  Anyway, and
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline whels

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Why not HO?
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2004, 12:03:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Wow, does enyone in your opinion fly LA7 right?  You maybe be the best, but us little people have to go in to a zoom clime to buy some time to think about what to do next when we encounter your greatness.  Give us time, we will learn.



to show u the usual mentality of La7 pilot.

my 1st fligh in AH2(ever) other day, 1st plane i meet La7 co alt @ 15k, i was a -4 hog, what does La7 do?  HO 1st and only pass
and then dives to deck to run  home 2 sectors away lol.


whels