Author Topic: Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"  (Read 1680 times)

Offline Toad

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Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2004, 08:34:45 PM »
Convenient or not, there it is.

Basically, I trust the man. He's in a position to know far, far more than anyone else I know.

It's easy to tear down and deny, but one has to base it on something. I'll take this fellow over CNN any time.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2004, 08:42:55 PM »
Wasn't disagreeing with you Sparks. That was in response to someone else.

As for what "we all" would do, I'd guess "we all" will do nothing. That is, after all, the norm isn't it?

However, if these developments are viewed as a direct threat to the US AND if the Congress concurs I'm sure there would be an immediate reaction.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline NUKE

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Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2004, 08:55:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Well, while I'm sure you disagree, I've not yet decided on the WMD issue.

As I've posted before, I've had someone I really respect tell me he believes they are in Syria. And, unlike those here who have diligently read CNN's reports and may even have slept in a Holiday Inn last night, that person is in a position to know far, far more than I. I suspect he knows far, far more than anyone posting here.

I won't be voting for Bush, but for me at least the jury is still out on the WMD issue. I base that solely on what this person told me.

Sorry to disappoint.


Toad this may be a little off the subject, but I have often wondered why people have to see proof of WMD found in Iraq as the litmus test for the war being required. I have the very straight forward view that , as long as Saddam was keeping us guessing and not cooperating, we would never be assured he was complying. This alone justifies the war to me.

Saddam was screwing around for 12 years and had all the chances to comply, yet he never did. What we did was eliminate even the possibility that he would ever hide of re-constitute his WMD. The whole world pretty much agreed Iraq had WMD......we went in and made Iraq compliant.  

That's really the main point.......to make damn sure Iraq would be eliminated as a threat and to remove Saddam from power.

Offline Pongo

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Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2004, 09:36:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
So you're making the case that Bush at the head of the US military creates a greater risk of a deliberate nuclear detonation than say Kim in NK, Khamenei in Iran, Ghaddaffi in Libya after he bought uranium from NK while seeking rapproachment (and nukes) with the West and even a greater threat than the unaccounted for nukes of the former Soviet Union?

You really want to say that?


He has proven his instability and lack of concern for peoples lives in actions that are there for all of us to judge. I see him as a nut. Is he more of a nut then Iranian nuts?
I didnt say that. Your getting in the neato habit of trying to get people to defend things they didnt say. Your really getting desperate toady.

This thing has turned out alot different then you thought it would. And you just cant find the moral courage to put the blame for that where it belongs.
Sad.

Offline NUKE

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Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2004, 09:39:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
He has proven his instability and lack of concern for peoples lives in actions that are there for all of us to judge. I see him as a nut. Is he more of a nut then Iranian nuts?
I didnt say that. Your getting in the neato habit of trying to get people to defend things they didnt say. Your really getting desperate toady.

This thing has turned out alot different then you thought it would. And you just cant find the moral courage to put the blame for that where it belongs.
Sad.


Actually Bush has proven to be very stable...he does what he says he's going to do. And as far as the war going different than  we though? Bush never said anything would be easy. He warned us all consistantly that it was going to be difficult.

I see Bush as very rational and stable and the war is another victory so far. What parts of the war do you feel are bad Pongo?

Offline Sandman

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Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"
« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2004, 10:36:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
No way!

Iran ratified the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty in 1970, and since February 1992 has allowed the IAEA to inspect its nuclear facilities. No way they can sneak it by those guys.


After that little "axis of evil" speech, what did you expect from Iran? In recent years, a healthy nuclear weapons program has proven to be a good deterrant to U.S. aggression.
sand

Offline Rino

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Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"
« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2004, 10:40:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
Isnt it amazing how all the power in the world doesnt make you people feel safe?
Why is that?


     Cause we have open borders to let nitwits like you in?
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Offline Pongo

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« Reply #52 on: June 02, 2004, 11:46:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Actually Bush has proven to be very stable...he does what he says he's going to do. And as far as the war going different than  we though? Bush never said anything would be easy. He warned us all consistantly that it was going to be difficult.

I see Bush as very rational and stable and the war is another victory so far. What parts of the war do you feel are bad Pongo?



I never said it has gone any different then bush will admit  to or his followers will recognise. I said it has gone alot different then Toad thought it would pre invasion. Ill let you look at the history to work it out.

Your last question is so silly as to deserve no comment.

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #53 on: June 02, 2004, 11:46:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rino
Cause we have open borders to let nitwits like you in?


Ya I come and go to the states as I please. Be very very affraid rino. lol

Offline Toad

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Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2004, 12:06:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
Your getting in the neato habit of trying to get people to defend things they didnt say.  



No, I'm just still in the habit of trying to get people to explain their throw away lines that seem to say something but really don't.

However, I'm not suprised when folks don't want to explain their quips.


Quote
With super powers throwing proliferation treaties out the window left and right who cares if the little guys arm up?



You posts made it seem you're not too concerned with Iran having an ongoing nuke program. Is that how you actually feel?


As for how this turned out, the only thing that really surprised me was that we did not find the WMD in Iraq in significant quantities. Yep, that concerns me. As I said, lately I've been swayed to the viewpoint that they may well have been moved. I accept that as a possibility. Unlike others, I don't think I'm privy to enough information to discount that totally, CNN notwithstanding.

Well, I was also suprised at the speed of the Coalition's victory. I did think the Iraqis would put up a longer organized fight.

As for the rest of it, most objective overviews show that the majority of Iraqis are going about their normal daily lives and the infrastructure is being rebuilt better than it was.

It's a relatively small element that's causing the trouble. I also think that the election process will proceed and they will have their own government in a reasonable amount of time.

So I think your assessment of what I think is way off the mark.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Sandman

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Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2004, 12:20:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
As for how this turned out, the only thing that really surprised me was that we did not find the WMD in Iraq in significant quantities. Yep, that concerns me. As I said, lately I've been swayed to the viewpoint that they may well have been moved. I accept that as a possibility. Unlike others, I don't think I'm privy to enough information to discount that totally, CNN notwithstanding.


It just doesn't make sense. Why go to all of the trouble of collecting and then hiding the stuff only to get rid of it when it would have made the most sense to use it?
sand

Offline Toad

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Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2004, 12:38:23 AM »
If you figure out what made sense to SH, let me know.

What would REALLY have made sense would have been to comply with the UNSC resolutions and bend over backwards to make the inspectors happy.

He'd still be running the place.

See, that makes sense to me. Obviously, it'd didn't to him.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Sandman

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Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2004, 01:05:58 AM »
You're still assuming he had the material.
sand

Offline Toad

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« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2004, 01:09:10 AM »
Well, it's that "SH makes sense thing" then isn't it?

If he DIDN'T have the material it would have made even more sense to accomodate the UNSC resolutions and UN inspectors, wouldn't it?

But...... his actions never did make much sense. IMO.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Sandman

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Things that make ya go "hmmmmmmmmmmm"
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2004, 01:10:35 AM »
If your army had suffered a rout and you looked around at your borders would it make sense to exaggerate a WMD capability?
sand