Author Topic: Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?  (Read 5238 times)

Offline Ping

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2000, 05:20:00 PM »
OOOO SHHHUUURRRRe...Pyro and HT get to play 102 but we dont..BASTICHES !!!!  
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Offline Westy

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2000, 05:27:00 PM »
Kieren, I wouldn't mind seeing the film just because I like watching them.  HTC are the people who really need to have it as you need to convince them that there is a problem with long distance kills.
 I don't fly as much as alot of people do so maybe I've missed this problem. I've never found that I was getting shot down from long ranges at all, going back to the day that the AH open-beta opened for us.

 -Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-30-2000).]

Offline Downtown

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2000, 07:47:00 PM »
HT, I noticed, I was D1.2 on your six in a 38 last night (29 March) and I started lobbing Machine Gun around you hoping you would turn.

I aimed well High, trying to get the bullets to cover the 1.2 and fall in front of you and get you to turn.

Well it worked, and you went into s turns to bleed E.  I throttled back immediately, times my burst and got one of your vators.  I was waiting for you to fly in front of me again, and when you didn't I knew it was time to get out of Dodge.  I looked back and saw the distance growing, and another Rook behind you.  I flew straight thinking that the guy behind you could shoot (Big Mistake) you removed my Vator and kilt both engines, and apparently escaped the now Two Rooks Behind you.

That is the last time I attempt you drag you for another rook.

Maybe with the new gunnery model he will hit you next time.

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Offline LLv34_Snefens

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2000, 08:28:00 PM »
   
Quote
Originally posted by Gman:
It doesn't come straight out of the muzzle and travel along the same parrallel axis that the barrel is on, it pops up, then eventually drops and intercepts the plane that a laser from the barrel would make, and then begins to fall below the point of aim.

Are you saying that if the barrel was completely level, the bullet would still climb above its original height, but later fall down due to gravity?

I would say that the gun was pointed slightly upward so the bullet would cross your gunsight again, due to the gravity, at the convergence length.

I made a quick hand scetch of the two possibilities (don't laugh    ), where the red line is the bullets path and the green line is the "laser" line from the barrel. Something I forgot to put in was the gunsight-view-line, but this should be level in both situations (and thus be identical to green line in first pic)

     

If convergence was to be set further out I would say that the barrel would be put at an higher angle, so the bullet would go higher and that way pass the gunsight further out and I am just talking about vertical convergence here, like MG of the 109 for instance.
Speaking of those MG I used to have their convergence at 650m, but noticed that I then would shoot a bit to high if I aimed at a bandit at for instance 300m.

Someone else talked about more lead was needed when turning after an enemy. This is not true, at least not if both are turning at 90 degree. All that might be affected is that the bullets in the future will now hit the fuselage instead of the lowest wing of the bandit, and that is actually exaggerated as such a shot is often from 200-300m where the drop is still very small, that be either at 1 or 2 G.

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[This message has been edited by LLv34_Snefens (edited 03-30-2000).]
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Offline Gman

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2000, 11:24:00 PM »
Hah, you are far less lazy then me  .

The first diagram is accurate in terms of the trajectory from a rifle.  If I sight in bang on at a medium range, the rounds will hit a few inches high of the aim point at the 100 and 150 meter markers.  

There are actually flare rounds (no, not tracers) which I've seen demonstrate this at the Gunsite course in Arizona.  You could visibly see the rounds popping up from the muzzle and then following their ballistic path.  Again, I know this is right, I'm just not sure how or if it relates to the ballistics modeling in AH.  Being above and beside the guns in the wings makes it hard to tell, and even in the 109 or 38 I can't tell if they are popping up correctly or not.  I'm not even sure if this is important, but after ten gin and tonics, I've convinced myself it is,   lol.

Offline Citabria

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2000, 11:32:00 PM »
I have a solution to easy long range kills if we are willing to try it...


read the thread:

"Range ICON = handicapped gameplay and spray"
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/002452.html


tell me if ya like it or dislike the idea  

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Offline juzz

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2000, 11:55:00 PM »
And just what amazing unknown force is creating this mythical "pop-up" hmmm? Anti-gravity?

Offline indian

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2000, 12:15:00 AM »
Heres a quick way to see what HT is saying using the hog d go shoot and turn slightly you can see the bullets drop faster as they stream away I only noticed it on the guns not  the cannons I thought it was normal so I adjusted to it. I say to turn cause you cant see it as much in straight line plus use hog d cause it has lots of ammo.

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warmut

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2000, 12:41:00 AM »
Time for a little correct physics:

Rounds do NOT pop up upon leaving gun barrels unless the rounds are not symmetrical.  You may think you see this with a tracer (or flare) shot Gman, but your eyes are playing tricks with you.  Unless you have a round with some kind of lifting body effect which requires that the round not be symmetrical, it CANNOT pop up.  It may be possible to have recoil affect the pointing of the gun, raising the aim point slightly and giving the effect of a pop-up, but this is not a pop-up by the round after leaving the barrel.

and for the question of where the round hits down range when gravity is doubled, it isn't 1/2 the distance.  The time to fall varies inversely as the square root of the acceleration, so the time of fall will be .707 (1/sqroot(2)) as long as it was with one G.  Therefore the distance will be .707 times the original distance.  If you don't believe me, pull out an old physics text book and do the math.

warmut

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[This message has been edited by warmut (edited 03-31-2000).]

Offline Vermillion

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2000, 06:42:00 AM »
Maybe I'm wrong but I dont' think its "popping up".

If you sight the gun for 200 meters (medium range) and then fire it at a target at 100 meters yes it will hit higher than where you  aimed.

But thats because your aiming point is setup (calibrated) to correct for the bulletdrop over the 200m distance, but since it is not going as far, it doesn't drop as far, and therefore you hit higher than the point you aimed at.

The only way I know for it to actually rise is if in some way the bullet itself is acting as a lifting body (ie like a wing).

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FDAce

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2000, 12:15:00 PM »
I have something very important to say her and that is.. woops  my poptarts just popped up. later

[This message has been edited by FDAce (edited 03-31-2000).]

Offline Tern

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2000, 12:31:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by RAM:
I agree 100%, Maniac...or Long range shooting is somehow turned down, or I'll again begin to think in dropping my account.
If I am going to die from 2.0K i'd rather go hunting rats

And I agree 100% with RAM and Maniac!    (BTW - With correct ballistics, RAM would have been ded faster in the valleys the other day by me.)  

Hopefully, HTC will do the "lethality" issues right this time.  I know my gunnery sux in AH and now I know why...  Good old coding typos.  

Guarantee this is gonna piss off a lot more folks than it makes happy.  Specially the canon dweebs v MG  

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Offline Tern

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Ok what will the new gunnery do to gameplay?
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2000, 12:39:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Gman:
Absolutely in relation to the barrel.  When I find an on-line diagram showing/explaining this I'll put it up, since putting into words isn't coming to me.

THANK YOU GMAN!    Yes it works the same in all projectile weapons.  From Bow and Arrow, to Crossbow, to Slingshot, (no catapult data yet) to any rifled barrel projetile and most non-rifled barrels.  (Can't think of any non-rifled that are not affected thus.)  

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