How was the 109Gx deployed in WW2?

[beet1e]

The 109s are a good challenge to fly in AH, especially now in AH2. They are a bit of a handful - don't roll well, compress easily, sluggish elevator... - in fact for certain types of AH gameplay they're not much good at all. Just this evening, I was fighting against Bish at A11. The opposition was all LA7/N1K/Spit, with a few HURR. There's no way to turn with those guys in a G, but you can accelerate in their low 6 to create an opportunity - helped now that the icon is below the plane dot because sneak attacks are easier.

But when they're all giving 6 calls a 109G in a lone wolf situation is not good. OK, I know it wasn't designed for that, so what role in WW2 was the 109Gx designed for?

[BUG_EAF322]

fighterrole airsupremacy

just a guess

[simshell]

i tend to think fighter/intercept roll


109g's are just great that F4 is for easy mode:D

[wrag]

Hmm..

In my expeirence the 109g10 can almost turn with  the LA7.

Seems to actually out turn it some times but depends on who is flying the 109 and who is flying the la7.  (Note: ya wanna be REAL CAREFULL around Shane and those that fly the La7 like him )

My answer to an La7 is to try to take em high!  Same with the Yak's.  Over 16k if possible.  If they stay low it gives me chances to Z&B em, if they follow me up their preformance drops off some and you can get a small edge on em if you fly the 109 right.  (Which is not something I always do well LOL).

109's seem to do everything much better with the addition of rudder to the given manuver.  That is rudder seems to help a great deal with rolls and turns.  Gotta watch the slats though!  They can actually help your manuvers if you get the timing/speed right.

Can almost turn that baby around (a full reversal of direction) in it's own length under certain conditions.  

I've also found, for me, the best escape/avoidance manuver with a 109 is to climb slightly using rolls and slight turns to avoid fire, and NEVER DIVE OUT of a fight, unless you have the proper conditions.  In a dive your control is reduced, the faster you go the less control you have, so the Pony's and such will catch you, and you can't manuver to avoid their fire while they can mauver to get a firing solution on you!  The 109 is small and these manuvers seem to make it hard for the E.R.I.T.'s  (E.vil R.ed I.con T.ype's) to hit you.  

Compression actually seems to occure at a higher speed then in AHI.

Was thinkin in AHI compression occured at around 425, while in AHII seems a little closer to 450?????

Recovery seems easier in AHII as well.

Also at higher alts compression seemed to occure at a higher speed.  Like, um, oh let's say 550 up around 15k to 20k.

IMHO the 109's are Z&B vertical fighters and while they can do some turns your better off going to high yo-yo's, or roll's, or some such a manuver/combination then say a flat or horizontal turn.  Spit' s, and Niki's, etc.  can, and will, hand you your prettythang real quick if you try to turn with em!

When in nose down manuvers throttle control and rudder,with roll compensation from the stick, towards the high wing seems to work very well at avoiding over speed/compression.

Just my opinions here though LOL

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by beet1e
The 109s are a good challenge to fly in AH, especially now in AH2. They are a bit of a handful - don't roll well, compress easily, sluggish elevator... - in fact for certain types of AH gameplay they're not much good at all. Just this evening, I was fighting against Bish at A11. The opposition was all LA7/N1K/Spit, with a few HURR. There's no way to turn with those guys in a G, but you can accelerate in their low 6 to create an opportunity - helped now that the icon is below the plane dot because sneak attacks are easier.

But when they're all giving 6 calls a 109G in a lone wolf situation is not good. OK, I know it wasn't designed for that, so what role in WW2 was the 109Gx designed for?

Beetle, never having flown a 109 irl all I can suggest is try a 109
F2, F4, G2, G6, G10, G14 and K-4 in IL2 AEP - different bird, G2 compared to a F4 is like a damn rocket, G6 with Mk108 is incredible.

G10 and K4 will outfly ANYTHING with a propellor and the 30mm will kill out to 300 meters with ease.

If IL2 is anything to go by the f/m of AH for the 109 series has been drastically neutered.

[J_A_B]

"How was the 109Gx deployed in WW2? "

It served with the Luftwaffe in all fighter roles.  


"what role in WW2 was the 109Gx designed for?"

The early G's are basically an up-engined F4 intended as a general multi-role fighter, as were all previous 109's

Mid G's--G6 and such--can be seen as an attempt at improving the limited firepower of the earlier 109's.

Late-model G's were mostly various attempts to keep the airframe's performance up to the standards of the newer Allied models.

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When thinking about aircraft and their weaknesses in the MA, it is important to remember that the Germans used it because it was all they had.  In the MA we can choose between any airplane from any country regardless of its cost.  In the real deal you don't have this luxury.  The Germans did not produce any other inline-engine fighters in any substantial quantity, and programs intended towards introducing new models all were problem-fraught and ultimately cancelled.   While probably not the best overall fighter by the second half of the war, the 109 had the advantages of being relatively cheap and easy to produce, and 1944 was a record year for 109 production DESPITE the massive bombing campaign directed at the German aircraft industry.  

----

As for the 109 in IL2:  The characteristics of the 109 in that game seem to contradict all other "common" sources, including the impressions of pilots who have flown surviving 109's.  My belief is that the stick-forces in that game are treated very conservatively, with the result being that airplanes which were most affected by stick forces--like the 109--gain a lot by that model.  It is not necessarily "wrong"; rather it can be said that its "virtual pilot" is of greater than normal strength.

J_A_B

[beet1e]

Great feedback, guys - thanks.

I'm not a natural 109 guy, but I find them interesting.  I used to fly with the 30mm, but found that didn't work too well in snapshot situations - throw in a bit of lag etc., so now I'm a gondolas dweeb. A small sacrifice in performance is rewarded by far more numerous shooting opportunities.

[Wotan]

As for the 109 in IL2: The characteristics of the 109 in that game seem to contradict all other "common" sources, including the impressions of pilots who have flown surviving 109's. My belief is that the stick-forces in that game are treated very conservatively, with the result being that airplanes which were most affected by stick forces--like the 109--gain a lot by that model. It is not necessarily "wrong"; rather it can be said that its "virtual pilot" is of greater than normal strength.

Nonsense, go nose over in a g6 from 6500m in il2 then do the same in AH. Tell us what dive speed you reach in a dive and at what speed you need trim to pull out from the dive.

Schaden is exaggerating, I have flown the 109 in ah going on 4 years and since il2s first beta till present.

I fly then exactly the same way in both.

If hes "easily" shooting down planes at 300m in Fb he has easy gunnery mode on. If he knows the range then the very least icons are on, most likely no cockpit as well.

Hell not 5 min ago I was in G14 in FB and saddled on to a p51b. It took 5 30mm hits to finally destroy it. IN AH 1 30mm hit = 1 kill on any fighter with rare exceptions. In FB many times it takes more the 3.

As some who has tested and compared the 109s in both games they perform real similiar. The exception being the AH2 G-10 which as Pyro stated in another thread the AH G-10 is really a K-4, they juist added a 20mm option and called it a G-10.

Of course I only play on servers with full difficulty settings.

[J_A_B]

Well you've certainly spent more time with the 109 than I have so I'll consider myself corrected with regards to IL2's 109.   I haven't played IL2 since it came out and haven't played FB at all, so it's also possible it has been tweaked since then.

J_A_B

[Wotan]

The thing that makes Il2 FB planes (in particular the 109) "do better" in turn performance is  the way they modell trim and the fact flaps can be open at any time (seemingly).

So there are issues but not just related to the 109. Performance wise (speed climb etc.. they match up well against ahs).

Dive accelleration in FB is slower then AHs and you can dive to a higher speed before structural damage.

Were you in Warclouds server earlier?

There was a "JAB" flying a spit.

I was flying a 190 (4./JG53_Helvik).

Anyway the spit / 109 match up is troublesome in AEP 2.01. The next patch (if we can believe reports from those flying the leaked version) will heat up less and manuver much better.

[J_A_B]

I have never played IL2 on-line.  I played with it off-line because I ended up with a free copy for a time.   I gave it away when I was done with it.   For whatever reason, the off-line flightsims have never really appealed to me.


J_A_B

[BUG_EAF322]

I play i lot at the warcloud 44+ server look out for my P38J been doing some awesome fights with it.

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by Wotan
Nonsense, go nose over in a g6 from 6500m in il2 then do the same in AH. Tell us what dive speed you reach in a dive and at what speed you need trim to pull out from the dive.

Schaden is exaggerating, I have flown the 109 in ah going on 4 years and since il2s first beta till present.

I fly then exactly the same way in both.

If hes "easily" shooting down planes at 300m in Fb he has easy gunnery mode on. If he knows the range then the very least icons are on, most likely no cockpit as well.

Hell not 5 min ago I was in G14 in FB and saddled on to a p51b. It took 5 30mm hits to finally destroy it. IN AH 1 30mm hit = 1 kill on any fighter with rare exceptions. In FB many times it takes more the 3.

As some who has tested and compared the 109s in both games they perform real similiar. The exception being the AH2 G-10 which as Pyro stated in another thread the AH G-10 is really a K-4, they juist added a 20mm option and called it a G-10.

Of course I only play on servers with full difficulty settings.

Well I would disagree - I play with range icons on offline and online I normally play full real - depending on servers, most have range icons for friendlies.

Bullet drop on the 30mm seems far less in IL2 and the a/c don't seem to be on rails as they do in AH.

Gameplay in AH is better but otherwise AEP is better hands down for everything else.

The cheat in IL2 for the map - you're always somewhere in the middle of the thing and the ability to zoom in the gunsite makes things a lot easier.


btw I have had flap damage in a 109 when deploying too much flap at speed.


Did find the 190A4/5 to be a bit sluggish, incredible roll though - 109's roll like 190's in AH.

Gun flash is ridiculous though - no 20mm or 30 mm ever lit up like that during the day.


Try it yourself Beetle - it's well worth it.