Vertical performance of the Spit 9?

[Urchin]

Well... after 3+ years of playing this game... you'd think I'd have learned how to judge relative energy states.  

Apparently not.  

Spit 9 about 1000 yards in front of me, about 1500 feet below me, going maybe 50 mph slower.  I dive in on his tail, he does a complete 360 flat turn.  While this is going on, I'm setting up for a zoom, aiming to end up directly above him.  After his flat turn, he zooms up (closes the distance from d1.2 to 400), and casually blows me away as I come "over the top".  

So yea, this is a "Luftwhine".  Either the 190 is completely and totally ****ed in AH2, it was totally overmodelled in AH1, or the Spitfire is overmodelled in AH2.  

I'm hoping this will at least get a perfunctory glance at the Spitfires and 190A's vertical performance before AH2 goes live.

[Wotan]

It only gets better with age....

[kamori]

Ok I have seen people say something like this " After the flat turn he gained on me", or "he did a flat turn and seemed faster"  How could this be...


Well I race R/C pylon planes. We used a radar gun at a race and found this out. I entered my first turn at 96 Mph...just at the end of the turn i was doing 103 Mph. It seems to be a sling shot effect.

Hope this helps explain this......

Kalamori

[Replicant]

Originally posted by Urchin
Well... after 3+ years of playing this game... you'd think I'd have learned how to judge relative energy states.  

Apparently not.  

Spit 9 about 1000 yards in front of me, about 1500 feet below me, going maybe 50 mph slower.  I dive in on his tail, he does a complete 360 flat turn.  While this is going on, I'm setting up for a zoom, aiming to end up directly above him.  After his flat turn, he zooms up (closes the distance from d1.2 to 400), and casually blows me away as I come "over the top".  

So yea, this is a "Luftwhine".  Either the 190 is completely and totally ****ed in AH2, it was totally overmodelled in AH1, or the Spitfire is overmodelled in AH2.  

I'm hoping this will at least get a perfunctory glance at the Spitfires and 190A's vertical performance before AH2 goes live.

My apologies for calling you a 'Luftwhiner'!  Seriously!

As for the Spitfire Mk.IX, well, I pretty much did the same as you but in a Tempest (when they were free - I never fly them in the MA) and I was totally surprised at how he kept his E.

[13Promet]

As for me it seems the opposite: I can really feel that the turn&zoom and floating capabilities of spits are greatly reduced.
I never fly them, so i see it from the opponet's point of view: B&Zing them is way easier and I get many less hits when i'm "over the top".
I must also say that i don't fly 190s, so it could depend on it rather than on the spit. I suggest you to try tests using a different plane for attacking.


Best regards

[GODO]

Now Spits are diving demos, perhaps that translates also in better zoom performance.

[Cobra412]

Urchin I've done something like this a few times against folks.  What was the actual distance from you when you started going vertical?  Also at what point did you stop your decent and begin to level setting up for your zoom?  I'm assuming that when you went vertical he/she was only 1.2 out and facing you at close to a 0 degree aspect angle?

The 360 degree turn and then going to a zoom isn't that hard with a Mk IX.  It really depends on two things.  Did they (con) have enough seperation prior to the zoom and did you maintain enough energy to zoom.  I typically will go to a nose low turn maintain and sometimes actually gain more speed when trying to return nose to nose without losing excessive altitude.  Now if they keep their nose down and try to gain as much speed as possible but keep lessening their seperation then effect you may be shorting yourself.  The Spit can prop hang fairly well and with the right speed and angles can catch up to some in the zoom depending on the initial speed entered by both parties and the seperation between the two.  If he/she was light on the stick and had the right angles and you were hard on the stick it could be possible but not a common incident.

Whoever it was that tried to zoom with your 190 was daring and very lucky it didn't backfire.  Everything has to be perfect in that situation for the Mk IX to get close enough to pop off lethal shots.  Alot of the times I have tried it I've come within 500 to 600 and just out of range.  In the end I left myself hanging out to dry.  I don't think this is a common maneuver because it's very risky and the odds are against the Mk IX from the start.  Too much has to be perfect and you may be able to do it once or twice but not consistently.

[Urchin]

I set it up the way I set up all the time in AH 1.  I come in from a Spits high 6, he break turns.  If I can get the shot, I take it, if not I fly behind him and start zooming.  Gentle zoom, about 2-3G, angling to curve back to where I started from (no horizontal displacement from the start of the zoom to the end) but higher.  

Spit made a 360 degree turn in the horizontal plane, then pulled up after me.  He may have spiraled for the last 180 or so of his turn, I can't tell from above him.  

He closed the distance *fast* from 1.2 (as far as I got from him) to 400 (where I was stalling out and ready to come back down).  

That would not happen in AH 1.  In AH 1 although the spit does out-perform the 190 in the vertical, it cannot outzoom a 190 that started out higher and faster, after making a 360 turn in the horizontal.  If thats the way it should be, thats fine to, I'd just like to know why the difference between the two versions.

[Sixpence]

So Ah2 will be all spit9 pilots, oh boy, I can't wait.

[Dead Man Flying]

Film works now.  Let's use it.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Cobra412]

Urchin it's hard to say really without seeing film of it.  I mean if you lost him right after his break turn he could have very well not completed the 360.  I'm not sure from what your saying when you actually lost sight of him.  If you gently climbed out just after passing him he could have very well barrel rolled underneath right after his break turn gained speed and zoomed.  Opposed to completing a full circle in the break turn.   If you were coming out of plane left or right in your zoom and he was completing the circle you should have never lost sight of him.  Somehow he must have gotten to your belly side. I know it's been hard to judge speeds in AH2 for me so who knows.

I know I use this against some planes depending on how tight the try and make their initial pass.  Basically I'll setup for the break turn and most of the time they'll try to tighten up and turn a bit with me.  At that point once I know a high deflection is a slight chance (not guaranteed that it won't hit home though)I will roll underneath with slight aileron and rudder opposite of the break turn.  Get some quick speed back and then zoom if they are still close enough.  Most of the time they will pass below my initial break turn which gives me just enough time to get my nose down to gain some speed if they aren't too fast.  Unless they watch me out their rear view some pilots don't catch this.  It allows me not only to gain some speed for the zoom but also shift underneath their cold side prior to zooming if they are flying out of plane left or right.  So when they are looking back I'm actually at their belly side.  If they keep nosing over  burning speed looking for me I gently cut the angle so they are positioned with the whole top surface facing me.  By the time they realize it they can't maneuver away.

From what your saying though you must have seen him do the complete 360.  But at the same time it sounds as if the setup is similiar to what I do sometimes.  It's still a risky maneuver though.  Some get their nose around quicker than I think and I get a face full of bullets. Or the angle is judged incorrectly and my speed at the top of the loops doesn't allow me to get my nose back down (up actually since I'm inverted) to get my guns trained.  Most of the time if that happens I'm stalled at the top they get their nose down and speed away.  Once again though without film it's all speculation.

[Urchin]

No, I never lost sight of him, was watching out the back during the zoom.  

Doesn't matter anyway I suppose.

[TweetyBird]

>>So Ah2 will be all spit9 pilots, oh boy, I can't wait.<<

I dunno, a hurri-d out turned mine last night.
I'd like to think he was an exceptional pilot

If it isn't my imagination, I think the spit flaps lower a little faster now.

[Urchin]

By the way... my film viewer apparently doesn't work.. unless there is some stand-alone film viewer.  The one in the menu says it is disabled for AH2 beta.

[moot]

the stand alone ahfilm.exe is the one they enabled..
In your AH folder I think, or thru the shortcut in the start menu.