Author Topic: AGW Scheduled to Shut Down on 6/18  (Read 1402 times)

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2004, 09:50:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
Because the end result was to beat the West at all costs. And as we should be ware making a piece of shiesse takes no time or effort at all.

http://www.super70s.com/Super70s/Tech/Aviation/Aircraft/Tu-144.asp


"It was so loud that it was put into service delivering not passengers, but mail between Moscow and Alma-Ata, Kazakhstan on December 26, 1975. The expensive twice weekly flights were cut back to once a week in June 1976 and cancelled altogether by in December of 1977.
 Aeroflot thought so little of the aircraft that it didn't even mention it in its five year plan for 1976-1980. However, it was not the airline executives decision and Aeroflot reluctantly put the Tu-144 into passenger service on November 1, 1977 on the same Moscow to Alma-Ata route.
 Mechanical problems plagued the new aircraft and prevented the aircraft from maintaining even its modest one flight per week schedule. On May 23, 1978, the first Tu-144D produced experienced a mechanical failure and crash landed killing two engineers. A week later (June 1, 1978), the 102nd and last passenger flight took place. Aeroflot officials had had enough and refused to fly the inefficient and dangerous aircraft."


Great. I love all this rewritten history, from the people who have no understanding of the things they talk about.

First: Tu-144 was built for supersonic Moscow-Khabarovsk route. Availible engines let it only fly as far as Alma-Ata.

Second: Tu-144 was an economical failure, mostly because in Soviet society they had to keep the ticket prices to be affordable for everyone. One of my friends still can't forgive himself for saving something like 25 rubles and buying a ticket to ordinary plane instead of Tu-144. It was maybe 30-50% more expensive...

Third: did you see the pictures of first Tu-144? The site doesn't have it, because showing it can completely beat the whole effort to show Russians as "thievs". Landing gear blueprints? Maybe passenger seat design was stolen too? :rofl

Fourth: who really have beaten both Europeans and Soviets were Americans who were unable to built such complicated airplanes, and saved a lot of money :D

Fifth: Americans stole MiG-25 design to build F-15. Just look at the both airplanes. :D Americans copied everything including wing shape that is exactly the same. Now let me explain why it's not true ;)

What you have to understand is that the technological difference, design ideology and production culture makes things like "stealing blueprints" useless. To build a B-29 copy it took a complete new technological process, equipment and years of research. Even copying a licensed DC-3 with all possible technical documentation took several years and almost a complete re-design.

Offline Westy

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« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2004, 10:37:22 AM »
"I love all this rewritten history...."

 Your truth... my truth....    The real truth is we'll not see eye to eye.

 So for me.  I'm off to read some Shakespeare.  His works are good in English, but one really needs to read him in the original Russian!

;)

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2004, 10:53:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
"I love all this rewritten history...."

 Your truth... my truth....    The real truth is we'll not see eye to eye.

 So for me.  I'm off to read some Shakespeare.  His works are good in English, but one really needs to read him in the original Russian!

;)


Interesting comparrison, considering the appeal and strenght of Shakespeare's master works were not in the Originality, but in the quality of the retelling (as is my english 201 understanding anyhow).  

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You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline Horn

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« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2004, 10:55:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
I'm off to read some Shakespeare.  His works are good in English, but one really needs to read him in the original Russian!

;)


ST dweeb :D

h

Offline streakeagle

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« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2004, 11:18:20 AM »
MiG-25 and F-15 designs are both based on the layout of the A-5 Vigilante, which was a solid Mach 2+ performer well ahead of its time. A good look of an A-5 top view along with the intake design will reveal how similar it is to the F-15.

Aside from being twin-engined and twin tailed, there is little structurally in common between the MiG-25 and the F-15. Buran could easily be mistaken for the US space shuttle until you realize it has no engines. It is almost identical in every aspect. I wonder  if any of the parts are actually interchangable, i.e. windscreen glass, rudder, etc?

Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Great. I love all this rewritten history, from the people who have no understanding of the things they talk about.

First: Tu-144 was built for supersonic Moscow-Khabarovsk route. Availible engines let it only fly as far as Alma-Ata.

Second: Tu-144 was an economical failure, mostly because in Soviet society they had to keep the ticket prices to be affordable for everyone. One of my friends still can't forgive himself for saving something like 25 rubles and buying a ticket to ordinary plane instead of Tu-144. It was maybe 30-50% more expensive...

Third: did you see the pictures of first Tu-144? The site doesn't have it, because showing it can completely beat the whole effort to show Russians as "thievs". Landing gear blueprints? Maybe passenger seat design was stolen too? :rofl

Fourth: who really have beaten both Europeans and Soviets were Americans who were unable to built such complicated airplanes, and saved a lot of money :D

Fifth: Americans stole MiG-25 design to build F-15. Just look at the both airplanes. :D Americans copied everything including wing shape that is exactly the same. Now let me explain why it's not true ;)

What you have to understand is that the technological difference, design ideology and production culture makes things like "stealing blueprints" useless. To build a B-29 copy it took a complete new technological process, equipment and years of research. Even copying a licensed DC-3 with all possible technical documentation took several years and almost a complete re-design.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2004, 11:27:21 AM by streakeagle »
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2004, 12:15:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by streakeagle
Aside from being twin-engined and twin tailed, there is little structurally in common between the MiG-25 and the F-15. Buran could easily be mistaken for the US space shuttle until you realize it has no engines. It is almost identical in every aspect. I wonder  if any of the parts are actually interchangable, i.e. windscreen glass, rudder, etc?


Aside from having two wings and one tail there is little structurally in common between the Buran and Space shuttle. Look at the photos closer and you'll see that there is a difference in every part.

http://www.buran.ru

Not even mentioning that thermal-protection tiles on Buran lasted longer then on S.S. and weighted several times less. And Buran had a computer auto-landing system.

OTOH, on F-15 MD copied MiG-25 wings and tail exactly... Planes look absolutely the same if you look at them from below. :rolleyes:  j/k ;)

This discussion is so pointless that I enjoy it :D

Offline LePaul

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« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2004, 12:32:51 PM »
Wow, this went off topic fast.

Offline rpm

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« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2004, 02:57:33 PM »
The TU-144 was so well made that  they were grounded  for safety and remained grounded until NASA used 1 of them for a testbed. None are flying.:aok

The Boran made 1 unmanned flight (a total of 2 orbits), carried no payload and is unable to fly today. :aok
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Offline Cobra412

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« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2004, 08:55:31 PM »
Boroda I'm just curious but how many F-15s have you even been around?  Considering I work them on a daily basis and have done so for almost 10 years now I can definately say there is very little similarities other than the basics.  2 wings, 2 verts, 2 engines.  Thats about it.

Take a good look at the two.  The MIG 25 is extremely blocky, low visibility due to cockpit placement, and was basically built around engines.  

The F-15 on the other hand is alot sleaker in design, cockpit visibility is extremely higher than the Foxbat, and sorry but alot more pleasing to look at.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2004, 09:06:26 PM by Cobra412 »

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2004, 10:36:04 PM »





« Last Edit: June 17, 2004, 10:44:43 PM by Vulcan »

Offline ramzey

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« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2004, 10:45:41 PM »
lol Vulcan, yak 38 have 2 engines

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2004, 10:53:31 PM »
Russian planes and space shuttles are always totally unique and revolutionary, unlike American garbage.

No Russian plane or space shuttle even remotely resembles an American design.

Russia has nice fields for their stuff to rot in though :)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2004, 10:55:57 PM by NUKE »

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2004, 10:58:07 PM »
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Originally posted by rpm371
Borda, Stay Down!



rpm, you are dumb...the design of the Soviet plane is clearly unique.

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2004, 11:00:29 PM »

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2004, 11:05:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Aside from having two wings and one tail there is little structurally in common between the Buran and Space shuttle. Look at the photos closer and you'll see that there is a difference in every part.

http://www.buran.ru

Not even mentioning that thermal-protection tiles on Buran lasted longer then on S.S. and weighted several times less. And Buran had a computer auto-landing system.

OTOH, on F-15 MD copied MiG-25 wings and tail exactly... Planes look absolutely the same if you look at them from below. :rolleyes:  j/k ;)

This discussion is so pointless that I enjoy it :D


Yes, Buran is a totally original design, right down to it's ceramic tiles. Buran was a leap forward in design and took the world by suprize with it's unique looks.