Author Topic: Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22  (Read 1028 times)

Offline AKIron

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2004, 12:50:18 PM »
First to shoot doesn't necessarily mean victory. Will have to take a look at how those AA-10's compare to the AIM-120's.
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Offline Boroda

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2004, 01:04:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
First to shoot doesn't necessarily mean victory. Will have to take a look at how those AA-10's compare to the AIM-120's.


What is a Russian name of this AA-10s?

I wonder if Indians really have any. And if they have - they can have some "issues". I don't know about the current state of affairs, but some long-range AA missiles were only produced as experimental samples.

I also can doubt the "simulated" BVR training. Anyway, long-range SAM is the best BVR weapon.

Offline Dune

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2004, 02:59:23 PM »
What I found most telling is the quote by the AF general that admitted we have been limiting the abilities of our OPFOR pilots to simulate inferior enemy combatants?  

Can someone give me a reason why this isn't the most stupid shazaam thing in the world?  Sure, train them for the enemy tactics, but train them against the best flying the best.  That way, when you do meet the enemy, you recognize their tactics, but can beat them because you're used to people who fly better.

:confused:

Offline SaburoS

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2004, 03:21:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Plus, from reading the article, the main difference was the missle, not the plane.

The USAF probably wants to bolster the case for the F-22 any way it can.


No kidding. If it was a missile against missile thing, bring in the Tomcats with a Phoenix loadout.
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Offline Pongo

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2004, 04:06:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dune
What I found most telling is the quote by the AF general that admitted we have been limiting the abilities of our OPFOR pilots to simulate inferior enemy combatants?  

Can someone give me a reason why this isn't the most stupid shazaam thing in the world?  Sure, train them for the enemy tactics, but train them against the best flying the best.  That way, when you do meet the enemy, you recognize their tactics, but can beat them because you're used to people who fly better.

:confused:


The top gun guys. who are selected for the job because they are supperior, then would have many times more simulated combat hours cause they are at the school all the time. would totaly walk on the "trainees" 95 % of the time. That is a questionable use of the very expensive flying time. But obviosly the gloves have to come off to some extent.

Offline Dnil

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2004, 04:14:03 PM »
isnt it amazing what the indians can do when they use the gambling money on aircraft instead of booze.  Looks like we may have to rethink those treaties.

Offline Pongo

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2004, 04:32:45 PM »
LOL
Its not paying taxes on thier aircraft...gives them an unfair advantage.

Offline lada

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Re: Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2004, 04:39:44 PM »
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Originally posted by -tronski-
 “The engagement was over in three minutes. None of the F-15s even saw the Raptor. The Raptor simply went down the line and took out all five of the F-15s.”



That is an objective statement
:rofl
« Last Edit: June 21, 2004, 04:43:10 PM by lada »

Offline lada

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2004, 04:50:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
I read somewhere that the scenario that most supprised the US was a 4 ship Eagle intercept on a 10 ship formation of Mig 21s(bisons with BVR) and 2 SU30s in an AWACS mode.  The escort part of the mig 21 group defeated the 15s without loss to thier strike package.

That is not a huge supise if you think of what a force multiplier good airborn command and control is.


muhehehe what shall i do after reading this, when our country were CAPed only 0by 2x flyable Mig-21 in past 8 years

:rofl :rofl :rofl

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2004, 06:24:32 PM »
Good lord!  The side with AWACS and numbers wins a simulated BVR fight!!!  Who would have thought! That's unpossible!

Offline FUNKED1

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2004, 06:33:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dnil
isnt it amazing what the indians can do when they use the gambling money on aircraft instead of booze.  Looks like we may have to rethink those treaties.

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Offline Cobra412

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2004, 08:37:06 PM »
As usual these kind of topics come up and someone tries to prove one is better than the other.  It's rather amusing considering how many here have the first hand knowledge to back the "superior" aircraft theories other than simple internet data on either airframe?  Stop kidding yourselves into thinking one is better than the other by the news you hear.  Disinformation is such a great tactic that has been used for ages and folks still fall for it.



Quote
Neubeck said the service probably needs to “take off the handcuffs that we
put on our red air training aids and allow them to be more aggressive and
make the red air tougher than we have in the past.”


Obviously non of you have ever particpated in an Air Force Red Flag scenario.  As Neubeck has said we handcuff our aircrews in mock engagements and have for some time.  We've limited our crews to certain systems capabilities and afterburner usage.  It's well known amongst the fighter community that these things go on and people still seem to think that this aircraft can beat this aircraft because of internet data and news clippings.  To make the story short no one not even India I'm sure will use everything in the book during mock engagements.  If that were the case then why not just declassify all classified documents and let the enemy have full access to that data?  You have to leave some things a secret even with allies because someday you may be facing them in war.

Oh and as far as the whole F-15 vs F/A 22 thing.  Once again step away from the goodies and look at the big picture.  Why wouldn't the DoD and the Air Force ramp up the hype on the F/A 22?  Let see: money, money, and oh more money.  The military in general loves new toys.  The best way to get them is to prove in some way or another the old ones aren't capable of doing their job anymore(news clippings).  The F/A 22 has been in developement for over a decade now and has cost massive amounts of money to get it where it is.  Obviously the threat of aging systems isn't as bad as they make it seem or else the Raptor program would have been accelerated to an unfathomable rate.  Yes it is superior than the F-15 in many ways but don't kid yourself that the Eagle can't hold it's own.  Very few people have a clue as to whats coming for the Eagles in the future.

F-15 is aging and yes it may or may not be behind the times in comparison to the next generation fighters in some ways but it still gets the job done.  The oldest F-15s still in combat squadrons other than guard still have alot of years on them left for duty.  The Air Force could easily do extensive upgrades to fit future requirements but why when they've spent how much on the Raptor over how many years?  Don't doubt that the Eagle is advancing it's technology though.  The Eagle and the Strike Eagle will be around for many more years.  Amusing how the F-117 is already trying to downsize it's fleet when there isn't many of them in the first place and the Eagle is still going strong.  Considering the fact that the Stealth "Fighter" was designed around the same time as the later Eagle models and it's already being phased out is amusing to say the least.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2004, 08:53:12 PM by Cobra412 »

Offline hawker238

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2004, 01:02:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
Let's see: F-22 Raptor is a wonderweapon but Air Force isn't getting all the planes it wants.
Then we learn that Russian Sukhois can easily whip F-15 Eagles butt.

Coincidence? Sure :D


I'm not positive on how these exercises are preformed, but I'm pretty sure they're not launching missiles at one another.  Both the Su-30's and the F-15's get a lock on eachother outside missile range, the Su-30's fire first (or just say they have a lock and are in range) and then turn and run, leaving the Eagles to get whatever scraps they can with the AMRAAMS.  It probably based more on numbers and chance than evasive manuevers and airborne radars.

Verdict?  The AA-10 shoots farther.  That's all you can tell.

Offline Octavius

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2004, 01:09:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dnil
isnt it amazing what the indians can do when they use the gambling money on aircraft instead of booze.  Looks like we may have to rethink those treaties.


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Offline hawker238

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Su-30MK vs. F-15C vs. F/A-22
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2004, 01:17:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dnil
isnt it amazing what the indians can do when they use the gambling money on aircraft instead of booze.  Looks like we may have to rethink those treaties.


Beautiful!