Author Topic: at what point are you a traitor  (Read 3364 times)

Offline CyranoAH

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at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2004, 01:34:44 PM »
Listen people, I have travelled back in time to warn you about the horrible mistake you are about to make. This thread will get to 2000 posts (none of which are by Ripsnort, surprisingly) and the BBS will crash.

That will give the posters lots of free time, which will cause the start of a new world war.

Please make it stop before it's too late!

Daniel (from the future)

Offline AKIron

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at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2004, 01:34:55 PM »
And Howard Dean lost a nomination because of media lies. :rolleyes:
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2004, 02:02:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Habu
The Bush family is heavily connected to the oil industry. Look at GWB and Bush seniors record on drilling and exploration issues. Look at his record on pollution laws. Which industry is benifiting?
 


You didn't answer the question.  What political favors has he given his family?



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Kind of like writing a book review when you have not even read the book? Sorry Martlet you are a parrot when you go to secondary sources then make such a biased claim about a movie you have not even seen.


Where did I write a book report?  The claims you've made about the movie are second hand, too.  None of us have seen it.  Second hand info is all we have.  How is it fair for you to make claims about the book based on other's views, but now me?


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I did. When GWB opens his mouth his intelligence (or lack of) is there for all of us to see. Spin doctors can paint him any way they want but when he talks we see him for who he is.


No, you didn't.  The question was:  Are you saying public speaking is more important than national security or the economy.

Are you ready to answer the question now? This is becoming a recurring theme with you.


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You don't understand the issue. The FCC is not a democratic institution. Powel is a political appointee and he is using the FCC in ways that it should not be used. Don't argue with me, argue with the 8 million people who listen to Stern and think he is not indecent. If they feel strongly on the issue they will vote and you don't vote for or against the FCC commisioners, you vote for or against the government that appointed them and that they report to.


If the FCC wasn't meant to be used that way, why was it given content control long before Bush was in office?   The fact is, that's EXACTLY how it was meant to be used.  This brings us back to my original point:  If you are casting your vote because a regulatory agency that was in existance long before Bush took office is enforcing existing laws and it affects an entertainer you like, you are out of touch with the real issues in this election.

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Yes it is


Then explain to me how the FCC enforcing existing content laws violates free speech?

Offline Habu

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at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2004, 03:29:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
You didn't answer the question.  What political favors has he given his family?


Already answered (again)



 
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Where did I write a book report?  The claims you've made about the movie are second hand, too.  None of us have seen it.  Second hand info is all we have.  How is it fair for you to make claims about the book based on other's views, but now me?[/B]


I saw the clips from the movie dealing with the Bin Laudin family. I know they are in the movie. You are just parroting opinions based on what others have written. Step back and read your replys, you are begining to look really stupid with the rubber glue argument.


 
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No, you didn't.  The question was:  Are you saying public speaking is more important than national security or the economy.[/B]


Yes I did. And you saying no will not change that. Bush is an idiot. You may like some of the policys of the republican minders who tell him what to think and say but I object to an idiot as a president even if he is given good advice.

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Are you ready to answer the question now? This is becoming a recurring theme with you.[/B]


I have answered your questions and you just reply no you didn't. You don't refute anything. You don't give examples of why I am wrong about Bush.

 
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If the FCC wasn't meant to be used that way, why was it given content control long before Bush was in office?   The fact is, that's EXACTLY how it was meant to be used.  This brings us back to my original point:  If you are casting your vote because a regulatory agency that was in existance long before Bush took office is enforcing existing laws and it affects an entertainer you like, you are out of touch with the real issues in this election.

[/B]


No I am not. Bush could stop the nonsense right now. Bush could veto the new legislation that will increase fines to 500,000 by saying he will veto it. If he is not against it then he is for it. If he is for it he deserves to get turfed. Not just I feel that way. Read the article I posted below.

 
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Then explain to me how the FCC enforcing existing content laws violates free speech? [/B]


They are selectiving enforcing the laws (I just made a point there try to absorb that) and they are using the threat of fines as a way of stopping shows from airing content (you dont know you crossed the line until you get a 500,000 fine) and finally if you try to fight the fines and you have multiple stations they withhold license approvals and use other such tactics to prevent the challange from getting to court where it may be tossed out.

Offline Habu

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at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2004, 03:31:41 PM »
Politics

Kerry’s Secret Weapon?

Hundreds of thousands of swing-state radio listeners may turn the unlikely Howard Stern into a presidential kingmaker
 
by Ross Douthat
 
.....
 

hough much has been made of the recent debut of Al Franken as a liberal talk-radio host, the most important political voice on talk radio this year may turn out to be not Franken but the usually apolitical "shock jock" Howard Stern.

Recent months have not been kind to Stern, who found himself a target of the backlash against indecency that followed the baring of Janet Jackson's nipple during the Super Bowl halftime show. In February the radio behemoth Clear Channel Communications dropped him from six of its affiliates for being "vulgar, offensive and insulting." The following month the FCC slapped him with a $27,500 fine for his on-air discussions of sexual techniques such as the "nasty Sanchez" and the "blumpkin" (don't ask). As Congress considers raising obscenity fines as high as $500,000, Stern is contemplating a move to satellite radio, where the FCC couldn't touch him.

The proudly boorish host has cast himself as the target of a Republican vendetta—sparked by his criticism of President Bush and spearheaded by Clear Channel (whose CEO is a Bush family friend). So Stern is fighting back, proclaiming "radio jihad" on Bush's re-election campaign and partly remaking his show—well known for its adolescent obsession with fart jokes, lesbians, and strippers—into a platform for anti-Republican invective. "Remember me in November when you're in the voting booth," Stern tells listeners. "I'm asking you to do me one favor. Vote against Bush. That's it."

The idea of Howard Stern as presidential kingmaker may seem absurd on its face. But Stern has successfully dabbled in politics before. In 1994 he launched a Libertarian Party candidacy for governor of New York, only to quit the race and endorse George Pataki, a Republican, over the incumbent, Mario Cuomo. Stern was polling at six percent before he dropped out, and several political observers believed that his endorsement helped Pataki pull off a narrow win. The previous year Stern had endorsed the Republican candidate Christine Todd Whitman for governor of New Jersey, on the condition that Whitman name a rest stop after him if elected. Sure enough, Whitman upset the Democratic incumbent, Jim Florio—and today the Howard Stern Rest Area graces Interstate 290 just east of Burlington City, New Jersey.

Both those races took place within Stern's home market. But with eight million weekly listeners, Stern also has a larger national audience than any radio host other than Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or Dr. Laura Schlessinger (the majority of whose listeners presumably tend to be Republican). Stern could sway many undecided voters, according to Michael Harrison, of Talkers magazine, a nonpartisan periodical that surveys radio listener demographics.

Harrison says that Stern has "a gigantic audience of thirty- to fortysomethings, people who have grown up with him, people who are teachers, accountants, lawyers." Several million of them "would say they lean conservative ... but are on the fence" in this race. And the host has tremendous credibility with his listeners. "He may be raunchy, edgy, dirty," Harrison says, "but he's compulsively honest, and his main target is hypocrisy." Also, it's not hard to imagine that Stern's relentless screeds against the President would compel some of the previously nonvoting members of his audience—people whom political campaigns usually ignore—to turn out for John Kerry.

In a closely divided country it may not take many votes to tilt the electoral playing field. Ohio, for instance, went for Bush by fewer than 200,000 votes in 2000, and is up for grabs this fall. Stern's broadcasts in Cincinnati and Columbus reach a total of 138,000 listeners a week, according to Arbitron, an independent firm that tracks radio audiences. Missouri and Pennsylvania are also swing states; his show reaches 139,000 in St. Louis and 358,000 in Philadelphia.

In Florida, the fiercest battleground in 2000, the Clear Channel purge cost Stern audiences in Fort Lauderdale and Orlando—which is fodder for Bush-Clear Channel conspiracy theorists. But even now Stern's show reaches 38,000 people a week in Fort Myers—seventy times Bush's Florida margin in 2000. In short, it's not inconceivable that Stern could swing a state or two into Kerry's column.

Source:
The Atlantic Monthly; June 2004; Kerry's Secret Weapon?; Volume 293, No. 5; 46.

Offline Martlet

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at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2004, 04:02:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Habu
Already answered (again)  


Then restate your answer.  The truth is, you haven't answered, you're dodging.  I'll accept that you can't answer the question so we can move past it, though.



 
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I saw the clips from the movie dealing with the Bin Laudin family. I know they are in the movie. You are just parroting opinions based on what others have written. Step back and read your replys, you are begining to look really stupid with the rubber glue argument.


I've seen clips and read partial transcripts, too.   What I'm saying is fact.    Feel free to prove otherwise.

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Yes I did. And you saying no will not change that. Bush is an idiot. You may like some of the policys of the republican minders who tell him what to think and say but I object to an idiot as a president even if he is given good advice.


Again, not answering the question.  Dodge dodge dodge.......  *yawn*

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I have answered your questions and you just reply no you didn't. You don't refute anything. You don't give examples of why I am wrong about Bush.


Still waiting for you to answer the questions.   The fact that you can't by default proves my point.

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No I am not. Bush could stop the nonsense right now. Bush could veto the new legislation that will increase fines to 500,000 by saying he will veto it.


Your representatives passed it.  You're complaining that Bush is going against the will of the people by fining Stern, now you want him to go against the will of the people by vetoing a bill they passed.  Oh the hypocrisy!

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They are selectiving enforcing the laws (I just made a point there try to absorb that) and they are using the threat of fines as a way of stopping shows from airing content (you dont know you crossed the line until you get a 500,000 fine) and finally if you try to fight the fines and you have multiple stations they withhold license approvals and use other such tactics to prevent the challange from getting to court where it may be tossed out.


You must have missed the whole "context" portion posted above.

Offline Red Tail 444

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at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2004, 04:20:12 PM »
Does the FCC monitor AM radio as well? ...:rolleyes:

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2004, 04:59:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Does the FCC monitor AM radio as well? ...:rolleyes:


Yes.

Offline rpm

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at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2004, 05:25:16 PM »
They do a poor job. There are convivted felons and drug addicts spewing offensive (to me) rubbish everyday on AM.
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Offline Martlet

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at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2004, 05:27:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm371
They do a poor job. There are convivted felons and drug addicts spewing offensive (to me) rubbish everyday on AM.


Then report them to the FCC.  

Complaints/violations report

Offline 2Slow

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at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2004, 05:30:05 PM »
traitor

\Trai"tor\, n. [OE. traitour, OF. tra["i]tor, tra["i]teur, F. tre[^i]tre, L. traditor, fr. tradere, traditum, to deliver, to give up or surrender treacherously, to betray; trans across, over + dare to give. See Date time, and cf. Betray,Tradition, Traditor, Treason.] 1. One who violates his allegiance and betrays his country; one guilty of treason; one who, in breach of trust, delivers his country to an enemy, or yields up any fort or place intrusted to his defense, or surrenders an army or body of troops to the enemy, unless when vanquished; also, one who takes arms and levies war against his country; or one who aids an enemy in conquering his country.

Pretty tough label to be throwing around.  I doubt Mr. Moore qualifies.
2Slow
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Offline Eagler

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at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2004, 06:54:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 2Slow
traitor

\Trai"tor\, n. [OE. traitour, OF. tra["i]tor, tra["i]teur, F. tre[^i]tre, L. traditor, fr. tradere, traditum, to deliver, to give up or surrender treacherously, to betray; trans across, over + dare to give. See Date time, and cf. Betray,Tradition, Traditor, Treason.] 1. One who violates his allegiance and betrays his country; one guilty of treason; one who, in breach of trust, delivers his country to an enemy, or yields up any fort or place intrusted to his defense, or surrenders an army or body of troops to the enemy, unless when vanquished; also, one who takes arms and levies war against his country; or one who aids an enemy in conquering his country.

Pretty tough label to be throwing around.  I doubt Mr. Moore qualifies.



I think he does as his actions embolden the enemy.
Again, do you think he'd have gotten away with this in the 40's, 50's, early 60's???

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Offline GRUNHERZ

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at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2004, 07:11:41 PM »
So we have more lies, bias, poor and false logic, expolitation, cheap shots and misrepresentation in yet another Michael Moore propaganda film...

Is anyone surprised?

Offline SLO

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at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2004, 07:48:36 PM »
I see some of you have difficulty accepting a different POV.....

Offline hawker238

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Re: at what point are you a traitor
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2004, 08:08:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
So why does this slob get a free pass to say/write/film anything that comes out of his bush hating anus?


For the same reason you're allowed to post on this board.  Stop being a dumba**, he's not a traitor.