Author Topic: another whine (Read 749 times)

Vermillion · « **Reply #30 on:** January 13, 2000, 01:49:00 PM »

Pops: Won't the F4U outturn the P-51 too, lets not forget that? But I agree with you

Like I said in my first post the P-51, F4U, and Fw190, all perform similarly in the same categories.

TT: Go ahead and call BS on the skill business

Everyone is entitled to their opinon.

Being a good fighter pilot doesn't mean to just be a good stick and rudder man, or even an eagle eyed marksmen.

It also entails knowing how, when, and where to fight, so that your maximizing the strengths of your aircraft while minimizing your weakness's.

It sounds to me that your like to fly TnB planes, get in tight and mix it up, and then get miffed when a Pony driver sweeps in and blasts you while your vulnerable.

There's nothing wrong with either style, but you can't expect HTC to remove or cripple the FM of the Pony just because when flown correctly it is extremely effective against pilots of your style.

Thats just plain history, and was learned the hard way by every major power of the war.

If I remember correctly, you use to fly WB's under a different name, mostly in the ACA, but occaisonally in the beta arena's. You preferred the Ki-84 in easy mode, right?

"P-51 Gangs" ROFLMAO !! I like that. Maybe we should talk to Daddy over in WB's about becoming part of the Pony Mafia. When pilots named Guido and Luigi start to lead the top 100 lists, I am gonna be very very afraid

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"

Lephturn · « **Reply #31 on:** January 13, 2000, 02:47:00 PM »

Verm, the F4U won't out-turn the Pony at the moment IMHO. I love the Hawg, but the last couple of days I switched to the Pony to give it a try. Wow, what a difference.

I think the slight imbalance we are seeing is due to fuel load problems and... drumroll... energy retention. Now the F4U is supposed to be one of the best and most pure E fighters in WWII. At the moment, a CoE Pony with a compentent pilot will eat my lunch if I'm in the Hawg. What is blowing me away flying the pony is how much I can pull and still be fast. Damn, I can't slow this thing down. I start working a guy from 15k, keel him, find another, keel him. At this point I'm thinking I'm low and slow.. but I realise I'm still at 10k! I'm not saying the Pony is wrong... I suspect the F4U is porked actually, but in comparison the F4U is a brick.. and it should be close to the Pony in this respect, very close.

My main point for the rest of the gang is that the Pony is the best E fighter in the game, by a LONG way right now. It's this great energy retention that is giving the Pony the kills right now, and it's why the general impression is that it's so much faster.

Those of you fighting against the Pony remember it's big weakness. The Pony CAN'T slow down! I know it isn't much, but against a smart pilot it may be your only ace. The 51 is far from the best turner in the planeset, but with this great E retention I can use the verticle and "out turn" about anything.

Verm, we gotta devise some E retention tests and get some help running 'em. I'll put up a site with the info.

------------------
Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

Fishu · « **Reply #32 on:** January 13, 2000, 03:20:00 PM »

I wonder whats the talking of Fw190s speed..
Even spitfire catches 190 and bunch of other planes...
Not to mention that real 190A8 did fly as fast as 405-408mph top speed... (never had that fast ride in it..)
Remember that Spit IX top speed is 405mph in the game (tested..)

Lephturn · « **Reply #33 on:** January 13, 2000, 04:09:00 PM »

Fishu why don't you do some testing of the FW190A8 in AH if you don't think it's right. This general moaning about it doesn't get you anywhere. I'll see about testing the F4U, why don't you do something on the FW?

------------------
Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

weazel · « **Reply #34 on:** January 13, 2000, 04:34:00 PM »

Well it`s just my opinion but the P-51 is untouchable if flown properly. Before the FW-190 came out 90% of my sorties were in the Pony and it seems to be even better now than it was then. I took a P-51 up for a couple of sorties this morning(had not flown it in a couple of revisions) and couldn`t believe the difference between it and the FW-190-NIGHT AND DAY! History seems to indicate that these two aircraft were more evenly matched than what were seeing in Aces High. I`m speculating that the P-51`s FM is more refined at this point due to its "length of service" in the sim-remember it was one of the first modeled. BTW I think Fishu does make some good points-just maybe his delivery needs some work.

------------------
}]
JG2 "Richthofen"

Vermillion · « **Reply #35 on:** January 13, 2000, 05:03:00 PM »

I think the big problem with the Fw190 right now, is the fact that it currently doesn't have MW50.

There was a whole thread on this just a couple of days ago, that Wells started.

Those 400+ top speed numbers come from aircraft equiped with MW50, I have seen the copies of the original testing documents that Weretiger sent me.

Pyro seemed to indicate that he thought the MW50 was optional on the A8 and wasn't actually used very much.

I encourage everyone to visit that thread and comment there.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"

Wardog · « **Reply #36 on:** January 13, 2000, 05:11:00 PM »

TT lol

The p51 is suppose to be faster than all other planes in AH at this time period. Not sure what you whine is. P51 was built for speed not T&B.

If this was not the case,we would all be speaking German

Sundog · « **Reply #37 on:** January 14, 2000, 12:42:00 AM »

Actually, the Germans had planes as good as or better then the P-51. But, fortunately, we (The Allies) bombed their Industry so they couldn't build them, bombed their oil fields so they couldn't fly them, and won the war through attrition (Our Industry out produced their's: Of course the ground fighting, tactics, and all else had alot to do with it. Not to mention the infighting within the Luftwaffe and much of the German Command Structure, etc, etc). The Luftwaffe was mostly overwhelmed by the numbers of allied aircraft in the air. Of course, pilot attrition also meant fewer experienced combat pilots to fight for the Axis.

As for the Uber Planes, much of it really does rely on tactics. The only planes whose performance I truly wonder about in this game are the bombers. However, I don't have any hard data on their entire flight envelope. It just seems to me, based on what I have read, that the B-17 has the performance of the B-29 in here. Would like to see some actual performance data for the buffs if anyone has it (thumbprints, carpet plots, etc.)

Thx.

P.S.-Having fun anyway.

spinny · « **Reply #38 on:** January 14, 2000, 04:43:00 AM »

I think the 190 mark comparable to the 51D would be the Dora, not the A8, just as the -4 Corsair is, generationally, the comparable Hog.

------------------
Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X

dolomite · « **Reply #39 on:** January 14, 2000, 07:15:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sundog:
Actually, the Germans had planes as good as or better then the P-51. But, fortunately, we (The Allies) bombed their Industry so they couldn't build them, bombed their oil fields so they couldn't fly them, and won the war through attrition (Our Industry out produced their's: Of course the ground fighting, tactics, and all else had alot to do with it. Not to mention the infighting within the Luftwaffe and much of the German Command Structure, etc, etc). The Luftwaffe was mostly overwhelmed by the numbers of allied aircraft in the air. Of course, pilot attrition also meant fewer experienced combat pilots to fight for the Axis.

As for the Uber Planes, much of it really does rely on tactics. The only planes whose performance I truly wonder about in this game are the bombers. However, I don't have any hard data on their entire flight envelope. It just seems to me, based on what I have read, that the B-17 has the performance of the B-29 in here. Would like to see some actual performance data for the buffs if anyone has it (thumbprints, carpet plots, etc.)

Thx.

P.S.-Having fun anyway.

I agree with you, except for the last part. Anyone ever check the top ceilings for both the B29 and the B17? You might be surprised at what you see. The highest ceiling I have seen for the B17 is in the 37K range, whereas the highest B29 ceiling is in the 31K range. I may have the wrong books, so please, correct me!

As far as level speed and bomb load are concerned, the B29 would have it all over the B17.

juzz · « **Reply #40 on:** January 14, 2000, 10:04:00 AM »

If you think the current P-51D is too fast, climbs too well, blah blah blah - just think; the P-51B is lighter and has less drag...

Ripsnort · « **Reply #41 on:** January 14, 2000, 10:30:00 AM »

Dolomite, concur with the B17 having alt advantage over B29, reason being the B-29 was also the heaviest production plane at its time because of increases in range, bomb load and defensive requirements. Gotta sacrifice altitude for quantity

Like you said, it's speed balanced the need for altitude.
(Boeing lists the alt for B29 at 31,800 and the B17 at 35,600)

------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-14-2000).]

dolomite · « **Reply #42 on:** January 14, 2000, 10:35:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by juzz:
If you think the current P-51D is too fast, climbs too well, blah blah blah - just think; the P-51B is lighter and has less drag...

...and is faster, and a better dogfighter...

combat23 · « **Reply #43 on:** January 14, 2000, 10:47:00 AM »

And below about 12k the p51-a is better then both the b and d.

I also agree with some of the above posts: ie: the 190D is more compariable to the P51D in over all ability then the A-8. With mw50 or GM-1(forget which) the 190A-8 could to 405mph at around 21k. less at lower alts.

see ya on line

pzvg · « **Reply #44 on:** January 14, 2000, 11:50:00 AM »

Pretty new to AH, but still getting a few
kills

Mainly fly the wuerger and except
for buffs, most of my kills are the "dreaded
P51" Mayhaps picking fights the "butcher bird" is suited for is the trick, but hey,
I'm just one of those destestable WB's "Dora Dweebs"

(being entirely unsuited for vertical fighting which keeps me out of 109's)

------------------
pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

Author Topic: another whine (Read 749 times)

spinny

combat23