Landing without flaps

[muckmaw]

WTG Habu

[Habu]

Originally posted by Dnil
umm as a student you shouldnt be anywhere near clouds....remember your cloud clearances?  Plus most flight schools put extra padding on those limits.  

At the bear minimun as VFR its still clear of clouds, more then likely it was 1000 ft above where you were flying.

I know. But the clouds were big and fluffy ones that were well spaced and were only at 3500'. I wanted to see what it was like to fly though a small cloud or two. I would not have gone near one that was big enough to get disorientated in. Also I was circleing around them above them before diving down and passing through them. That way I could see if any other planes were around. Once you get behind one you have no idea what is on the other side.

Oh and I did not feel it was important enough to mention to them at the school when I brought the plane back.

I noticed that there was a bit of turbulence in and below the bigger clouds but none on top of them.

[CyranoAH]

I'm with Dnil on this one Habu. If you feel the necessity of going thru a cloud or two, do it while in level, steady flight, and always with small isolated clouds (the ones that are barely bigger than your airplane).

You NEVER know what's on the other side of the cloud, specially if you are descending.

VFR over-top is beautiful, and so is flying 1 feet above a cloud layer, but everything has its time, and I feel you need some more experience to let yourself do that.

Only my opinion, of course.

Daniel

[Habu]

Point taken.

I knew I should not have gone too near to them but then again the sky is hardly ever like that and it might have been months before I had the chance to explore them again.

[jigsaw]

Originally posted by Habu
Yes I was feeling great after I went to the office. I had to share the experience as there is no one except my wife who I discuss flying with. I try to avoid discussing anything scary with her.

This morning the weather was cool and winds were light. There was a broken cloud layer at 3500 out east of the practice area so I flew over and was kissing the tops of clouds and eventually flying through the peaks.

Approaching a cloud top at 100 knots is a funny experience, you know that you are going to fly through but it still makes your stomach jump.

I think enough people have already mentioned how bad of an idea that was. So, I'll just mention that you might (read should) check your solo endoresment to see what additional limitations your instructor put on there. Busting an endoresment is the same as busting a reg.

Also remember if you bust something the FAA will not only go after you, but your instructor as well. Right now you're flying on "his" ticket. He's given you the trust and respect to go out and learn. Afford him the same respect by staying within the set limitations.

Ok, enough scolding. Enjoy your next flight and be safe out there.

[Dnil]

just another little bit of info habu, really not trying to bust your chops at all, just some info.

The main reason we have cloud clearances is not for the VFR pilot to kill themselves.  Its to keep the VFR guys out of the way of IFR guys going through those clouds.  So when you are near clouds think of why you have to stay away and why the restrictions are the way they are....why is it 2000ft on the sides, 1k above and 500 below?  its because of the planes busting out of the clouds on IFR flight plans.  Thats why above 10k they change to 1 mile clearances because planes can go faster at that altitude.  

Just had an FAA briefing on mishaps in this area in the last 5 years and it was eyeopening, just things that should never happen that happen because of 1 minute of carelessness.

Again, enjoy it.  Very few get to.

[cpxxx]

You did well. It's nice to experience real bumpy gusty crosswind conditions and cope with it. You stayed cool which is very important. Real flying. It's all very well flying on calm days with the wind down the runway but it won't always be so. Well done.

On the question of flaps, in those conditions I always use at least 10 degrees of flap in a 172. They lower the nose a bit and help with your view of the runway. I find it difficult to see the runway at approach speeds with no flap. 10 degrees reduces the stall speed a little too which is important with gusts and even possible windshear. Check with your instructor, he/she will give you good advice.  

In this country the conditions you describe are almost normal at times. As a student I was nearly an expert on crosswind landings. On calm days I'd almost set up a crab angle I was so used to crosswinds.  

When I came back to flying after a couple of years break. My first flight back was just like you described. I was almost looking out the sidewindow, my girlfriend was in the back on her first flight with me. She thought I was showing off:rolleyes: for her. Well she is blonde:lol

The cloud thing is fun too if naughty. Funnily enough, I was telling a friend in work of my escapades with clouds today. (Calm down I am instrument rated. One thing I'd never recommend was something I used to have fun doing and that was killing little baby clouds by repeatedly strafing them.  Such guilt I feel

[CyranoAH]

Just to add another flying experience, Habu. Different story, same lesson.

I'm flying with a Zlin Z-50, a high-performance aerobatic single-seater. 260 HP, 360º/sec rollrate, +9G/-5G, and a beauty to fly.

I have been cleared to do the basic figures in it until I practice more inverted spins in the Pitts with an instructor.

The problem is that the plane makes everything look simple, and doing loops, spins, rolls, inverted flight, cuban eights and all that is so easy that you really question if it's you or the plane doing them...

...so you feel tempted to try something from the intermediate programme. Fortunately, common sense quickly makes you see that an unexpected inverted spin can send you plummeting towards the ground at a very high speed.

One thing is to --practice-- inverted spins. Another one is to find yourself in one unexpectedly.

Lucky for me, my warning that I was doing something I was not supposed to was pretty harmless. I was doing simple aileron rolls to the right, and since the stick is positioned a bit to the right, full deflection to that side is difficult with one hand.

I tried one and it felt slow as hell, so I said: "WTF, this is supposed to have a 360º/sec rollrate" so I repeated the maneouver at 140 KIAS and both hands on the stick.

Let me tell you, while the bump in the head against the canopy wasn't that hard, it really told me "Toto, I think we are not in a Cessna anymore". Even the Pitts ain't that violent.

Anyway, lesson learned. When the instructor tells you what you are cleared to do, his intention is not to keep your reigns short, just that you live to enjoy your next flight.

Respect the rules and you'll fly til' you're so old you can't even walk to the plane.

Daniel