Author Topic: Screw gunnery: Give me Strat, or give me death (Read 893 times)

Wanker · « **on:** March 30, 2000, 10:21:00 AM »

I'm really looking forward to the new strat possibilities with the release of 1.02. I would like to encourage HTC to put strat on the top of their priority list for future development.

In Warbirds, it seems that they've been tweaking the gunnery code over and over for the past 9 months. Every special interest group over there has been screaming "My guns are porked!", and iEN has fallen into the trap of trying to please everyone.

To be sure, an accurate gunnery model is very important. but there has to be a time when we all agree to stop the whining about gunnery, and start whining about something else.

I just don't want to see things like strat and "gameplay" issues being held up on account of a fixation on gunnery.

Keeping the game fresh and fun will be the largest challenge for HTC, especially with some heavy duty competition coming down the pipeline(WW2OL).

To me, it's a simple formula: More planes, vehicles, ships and targets, and more things to do with and to them.

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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"

Ghosth · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2000, 11:00:00 AM »

Hard to go wrong with that in my eyes!

But then HiTech knows we are a greedy bunch.

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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels

Mox · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2000, 12:41:00 PM »

banana, I tend to agree with you and I'd like to see more strat in the game (as it stands now there is none).

BUT the very basic core of the game is gunnery, and if there are real problems with the guns(ie. HogC and the nerf of the .50's) then it should be fixed now. If iEN had fixed the problems in the beginning maybe they wouldn't be having the problems they have now.

Developers tend to try and make a problem go away by skirting around the issue. Adding new things to draw your attention away from the real problem at hand is very common in the software industry. I'm not saying Hitech's crew is doing this, but admitting there's a problem is the first step..

From a developers view I'm sure it's more fun to work on new projects and I don't blame Pyro and the guys for that, I just don't want them to lose sight of a potential reason for many players to cancel their subscriptions.

New planes, new terrain, new vehicles are all great but the "newness" will wear off and we will still have the gun problems.

I hope the ballistics fix that is going into the new version will fix the problems and I look forward to testing it.

IMHO

Mox
The Wrecking Crew

rickod · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2000, 03:00:00 PM »

imho getting killed by somone d1.2 or above is shear folly and it has happened too many times either they have planes with snipers riding along or there shooting aim9 sidewinders at me in AH

realistically speaking somone should be at convergence to get such quik one ping kills
so the gunnery imho in AH is PORKED !!!

what I have mostly seen is spray and pray tactics anyways

peeps start firing at d2 or above and just spray all the way to the target
patooie !!!!
Ill take realistic guns first strat second
eyecandy upgrades 3rd

Wanker · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2000, 03:03:00 PM »

I totally agree, Mox. They should make sure the gunnery is "right" now, before the product gets too far along.

I'm just saying that once it is "right", that we leave it alone and get on to something else, preferably strat.

My only concern after seeing what happened over in WB is whether it'll ever be "right" to all people.

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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"

milnko · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2000, 04:19:00 PM »

Was reading a couple good articles

http://www.combatsim.com/htm/feb00/gunkill-1.htm

AND

http://www.combatsim.com/htm/dec98/ace9.htm

To quote:

Quote

"Harris "Mitch" Mitchell fired too low and saw tiny splashes behind the quick moving recon plane. Then he saw the tracers above his canopy from his squadron mates. Using this as a guide he picked up the snout of the Grumman to watch his fire stream into the
Ki-46. One engine blazed and the sleek plane cartwheeled into the ocean. This, his sixth kill, was taken at "somewhere over a half mile."

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•CyberPilots have BIGGER Joysticks•

««You can kill me, Can't ya?»»

««The Great Milenko»»

««A machine that goes PING!»»
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MILENKO Homepage
<===THE ASSASSINS===>Webpage
milnko@warbirds.org

Hangtime · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2000, 05:50:00 PM »

LOL.. I tend to agree... the guns here are kinda messed up... but a damn sight better than anything else I've seen.

If the developer is erring here it is mostly in dancing around the issue instead of taking the bull by the horns. Countless times I've tracked gunnery, scoring, flight model and damage modeling treads here only to find the developers comments rarely directly address the issues under discussion. There is no apparent benefit to the developer in this approach... all we get is fancy dancing.. not answers. These guys are supposed to be developing the best sim available... instead it seems we're gettin sold a bill of goods; and I'm losing faith as a result. I'm not saying this is in fact whats happening... it's just that we're not getting answers.. the cryptic remarks that don't address the issue tend to put me off on the sim as a whole. They seem to be quite conent in letting the various sides of an issue just wear themselves out... and just stick in a comment like 'the circle is complete' to let us know they saw the discussion; laffed, and left. What they probably don't realize is that we are in fact a hair smarter than the last politican they voted for and can recognize crap as crap when we step in it.

Enough of this.. I like HTC; but if they keep dancing around the issues instead of giving up answers to the questions and observations regarding this then they are gonna wind up lumped in with all the other companies that try this crap.

As for strategy... there's plenty here. Ever TRY to steal a field?? Wave attacked with B26's and a FORMATION of c47's??? Fighter sweeps deep behind the lines??? I've had a blast winding up a full scale attack on one field and then getting another while the defenders ramp up from the first. Or a combo attack... wipe out a country's dar and then lay waste to his city while he gropes blindly for us... and then go wipe the dar out again followed up with a grab of his main field.... Bait and switch.. canyon fights; hi-lo caps and defense.. it's here. This is in fact an outstanding sim; and I expect it will get better; not worse. Adding vechicles and ships and roads and such will improve it some... but not change it all that much. It'll still be a WWII aircraft combat flight sim. Not a WWII tanker sim. (I hope)

I really don't see the statement of "there is no strategy" as holding water. Most guys just wanna 'mix it up' and replane consistently from the same field and fly to the same fight... all night long. And usually these guys rarely climb into a buff or a c47. When they do; they fly right at that fighter furball and cry rivers when they get shot down. If you want strategy; you must create an idea, plan it out then DO IT.. That IS 'strategy'. The rest is just mindless furballing.

Oh well.. caused enuff damage here I guess... sorry if I offended anyone.

Hang

Maniac · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2000, 03:16:00 AM »

Good post Hang! <S> it sums up my feelings exactly.

Regards.

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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

Jekyll · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2000, 07:35:00 AM »

Hangtime has a point ..... just make your own 'strat'

One of the funnest missions my squad ever flew was 'Operation Bolo 2'. We all launched from a rear field in fully fueled mustangs, and cruised towards enemy fields so as to appear to be a formation of buffs. We even used a bit of radio misdirection by calling false altitudes and bomb loads over a channel we knew the enemy were monitoring.

Sure enough, when we arrived at our destination (after calling inbound on bomb run at 15k) we found a gaggle of cons waiting at 20k to ambush us. Unfortunately for them, we were already at 30k.

It was hysterical

Our 8 mustangs cleaned up bigtime that night.

So 'strat' IS available, if you're prepared to pre-plan your missions, and try something different now and again.

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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'

Wanker · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2000, 08:32:00 AM »

Guys, I know there already is strat, that was not the point of my post.

Here are just a few things I can think of that would be fun to do:

-CV ops
-Attack shipping with torpedos(B5N, TBF, Swordfish, etc)
-Supply interdiction(Blow up trains, truck & ship convoys)
-Parafrag fields(B-25H)
Destroy the Ruhr dams(Lancaster

)
Attack U-boats(Sunderland, Liberator)

And lots more. I think we're off to a great start, but the possibilities make the mind boggle!

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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"