Author Topic: You definition of god(at Chairboy's request) (Read 2039 times)

Capt. Pork · « **Reply #15 on:** July 10, 2004, 01:59:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tuomio
If god is out there to create Big Bangs, why in the heck i should care whether he exists or not?

Who says you need to care?

Personally, I'm not building any temples to worship the god of scientific probabality.

Storch... Does this mean you've grown more orthodox over the years?

storch · « **Reply #16 on:** July 10, 2004, 02:03:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
Ok. Here's a repaste of what I put in the other thread with a little extra:

I don't believe that there is any god or supreme being that has created the universe by design. I've read the christian bible, studied other religious texts, and given it some serious thought and come to the conclusion that religion fills the psychological need many people have to have someone else be in control, like when they were children and their parents were ultimately responsible for their actions.

I don't think that's bad, and I'm not trying to 'diss' people who have strong religious convictions, I just think it's an explanation for why people feel so strongly about it. People having 'religious experiences' have been cat-scanned while it was happening and there's an area of the brain that's common in all those people that has a fit.

Pretty much all these religions are based on books written hundreds or thousands of years ago, and I find it astonishing that people accept them without critical reasoning. Perhaps I'm just more analytical about things, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I think that the world we live in is absolutely amazing and incredible, and I'm constantly in awe of the beautiful majesty of the universe. As an engineer, I can appreciate how cause & effect (in a constant cycle) makes everything happen, and I find wonderment in every new discovery I make because I know that there are billions of other things that I can never comprehend, and I appreciate my place in this incredible machine called existance.

Well perhaps if we may engage in civil discussion perhaps you will answer a question.

the question is origins. how did life originate?

storch · « **Reply #17 on:** July 10, 2004, 02:06:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Capt. Pork
Who says you need to care?

Personally, I'm not building any temples to worship the god of scientific probabality.

Storch... Does this mean you've grown more orthodox over the years?

Actually I practice no religion at all whatsoever. That is to say I don't ever attend church. ever.

I am a Christian but as a Christian I am a mighty poor example of Christianity.

storch · « **Reply #18 on:** July 10, 2004, 02:08:27 PM »

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Originally posted by midnight Target
who the hell knows?

actually that is a partly correct answer.

Chairboy · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2004, 02:48:24 PM »

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Originally posted by storch
Well perhaps if we may engage in civil discussion perhaps you will answer a question.

the question is origins. how did life originate?

I'm wary of taking you at face value because of some of your posts, but I'll do so despite my instinct.

I think that life was created initially as a super simple form. I think that over a billion years of chance chemical encounters produced sub cellular lifeforms that whithered and failed to reproduce until eventually the right combination occurred.

Then that form reproduced, and then reproduced again.

After that, a process hypothesized in the book 'Origin of the species' took hold. Strong traits were statistically more likely to survive generations then weak traits. Some unicellular organisms hooked up and nature favored them with better odds of survival until early creatures began to acquire the trait of having multiple cells as part of their structure. Over millions of years, various environmental challenges (from the UV of the sun to cold weather to availlability of nutrition) 'herded' the various creatures towards picking up strong traits and dropping weak ones as each generation passed.

Time passes, and a pre-hominid lifts a bone and visualizes using it as a weapon/tool for the first time.

Three million years later, we're in space and arguing theology on a flight sim BBS.

Regards,

storch · « **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2004, 02:53:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
I'm wary of taking you at face value because of some of your posts, but I'll do so despite my instinct.

I think that life was created initially as a super simple form. I think that over a billion years of chance chemical encounters produced sub cellular lifeforms that whithered and failed to reproduce until eventually the right combination occurred.

Then that form reproduced, and then reproduced again.

After that, a process hypothesized in the book 'Origin of the species' took hold. Strong traits were statistically more likely to survive generations then weak traits. Some unicellular organisms hooked up and nature favored them with better odds of survival until early creatures began to acquire the trait of having multiple cells as part of their structure. Over millions of years, various environmental challenges (from the UV of the sun to cold weather to availlability of nutrition) 'herded' the various creatures towards picking up strong traits and dropping weak ones as each generation passed.

Time passes, and a pre-hominid lifts a bone and visualizes using it as a weapon/tool for the first time.

Three million years later, we're in space and arguing theology on a flight sim BBS.

Regards,

Please allow me to press further. HOW did life originate.

mechanic · « **Reply #21 on:** July 10, 2004, 02:59:08 PM »

As far as 'god' goes, i believe we must all find our own inner 'god' or 'faith' and only then can we benifit from any other form of god or belief system.

It is only by faith in ourselves that religion matters anyway.

As far as religion throughout history though, in my honest opinion, most of it is just bullchit made up to keep the masses in check.
If we all fear God, and the sovriegn of our land is put there by god, then surely we better pay our damn taxes, no?

lets face it, Jesus probably did exist, but he was no different from you or I. he was the equivilent of a 'David Blane' or street magician that could convince a cow it was a cat if he had the will to do it.
Jesus was just a really smart guy who got fed up with carpentry and decided to start his own gang.

just my 2p

~~batfink~~

mechanic · « **Reply #22 on:** July 10, 2004, 03:09:38 PM »

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Originally posted by RTR

So, how do you suppose David Blaine creates the illusion where he levitates?

I'm Stumpified.

RTR

he does that by clever camera angles.

try this at home.

get a friend to look at you from your 7 oclk.

now stand with your feet together and slowy stand on tiptoes with your right foot whilst keeping your left foot rigidly still.

if you have the strength to lift your mass with the single foot then from exactly the right angle (approx your 7 oclk) then it should create the lose illusion of levitation.

thats how he does it. i saw on 'the greatest street tricks unvieled' so it must be true

regards

batfink

Chairboy · « **Reply #23 on:** July 10, 2004, 04:13:50 PM »

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Originally posted by storch
Please allow me to press further. HOW did life originate.

I don't follow, I described exactly HOW it happened. Did you read my response?

???

storch · « **Reply #24 on:** July 10, 2004, 04:30:33 PM »

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Originally posted by Chairboy
I don't follow, I described exactly HOW it happened. Did you read my response?

???

Ok well let me take a stab at a rebuttal. In 1953 Grad student Stanley Miller and his Ph.D. advisor Harold Urey performed an experiment. It was touted as the solution to the (still unanswered) question of origin.

Check out this site and see if thats what you mean?

http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html

Regards

Chairboy · « **Reply #25 on:** July 10, 2004, 04:53:08 PM »

Hi Storch,

I'm familiar with the experiment. I think that processes similar to that were involved. Since there was over a billion and a half years before the first signs of life appeared, there was more time for various combinations to occur until something 'took'. Also, I think that billions of times, it failed.

The science behind that theory is sound. The fact that it hasn't been fully reproduced in a lab yet (as in, producing life that wiggles and quacks, etc) might logically be because it hasn't had quite as much time invested in it (billion + years) as what really happened.

Regards,

storch · « **Reply #26 on:** July 10, 2004, 05:12:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
Hi Storch,

I'm familiar with the experiment. I think that processes similar to that were involved. Since there was over a billion and a half years before the first signs of life appeared, there was more time for various combinations to occur until something 'took'. Also, I think that billions of times, it failed.

The science behind that theory is sound. The fact that it hasn't been fully reproduced in a lab yet (as in, producing life that wiggles and quacks, etc) might logically be because it hasn't had quite as much time invested in it (billion + years) as what really happened.

Regards,

Well then my question remains. In fact we should agree that at this time science still cannot answer the question of origin. therefore I believe it requires much more faith to hold to your belief system than it does to mine, as the law of thermodynamics actually favors the biblical view. But please explain where i may be going wrong here. Afterall xtomato says I'm an ignorant uneducated moron.

Chairboy · « **Reply #27 on:** July 10, 2004, 05:23:46 PM »

No part of thermodynamics or known physics supports the idea of a guy with long white hair saying 'let there be light' and then it happening. At no point does science offer evidence that the earth is 7,000 years old, nor does it support the idea that the entire surface of the earth was recently flooded and that all breeding species were carried aboard an Ark.

Many christians say confidently that 'Science suggests that the bible is requires less faith then what you propose', but that doesn't make it true. Were I to speculate, I would suggest that your faith is like the proverbial hammer in the saying 'When your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails'. By that, I mean that your faith is very strong (and as you hold value in that, you should be proud) but my 'belief structure' says that faith is not enough. I can, one by one, demonstrate the elements of scientific reasoning and historical studies. But a religious person cannot prove through demonstration anything except that they feel in their heart that they are correct.

Blooz · « **Reply #28 on:** July 10, 2004, 05:39:06 PM »

There is no God.

Only luck.

May yours always be good.

storch · « **Reply #29 on:** July 10, 2004, 05:44:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
No part of thermodynamics or known physics supports the idea of a guy with long white hair saying 'let there be light' and then it happening. At no point does science offer evidence that the earth is 7,000 years old, nor does it support the idea that the entire surface of the earth was recently flooded and that all breeding species were carried aboard an Ark.

Many christians say confidently that 'Science suggests that the bible is requires less faith then what you propose', but that doesn't make it true. Were I to speculate, I would suggest that your faith is like the proverbial hammer in the saying 'When your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails'. By that, I mean that your faith is very strong (and as you hold value in that, you should be proud) but my 'belief structure' says that faith is not enough. I can, one by one, demonstrate the elements of scientific reasoning and historical studies. But a religious person cannot prove through demonstration anything except that they feel in their heart that they are correct.

Well then I suppose that it is then true that with time things actually......Improve? That order comes from chaos? Are you suggesting that heat comes from cold? Please explain I'm so confused! First there was nothing, cold dark nothing and then......boom BIG (there went the second law of thermodynamics) bang? Oh my my head hurts!

I'm not mocking you.

Regards