Author Topic: unshrecking belivable shocking site  (Read 3450 times)

Offline Capt. Pork

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« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2004, 03:23:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
Cpt.Pork; I don't know if those guys at Masada2000 are your friends or what but for me they are bigots, racists and extremists and in same class with neo-nazies.

btw hoping I'd be tied to sinking ship wasn't nice from you but like a good christian I forgive you :)


No, they are not my friends.

However, being both Jewish and of Eastern European heritage, I support the continued success of Israel. I am, by definition, a Zionist(read the MLK quote, or just about any dictionary). The guys at Masada2000 are extreme Zionists. I do not agree with their tactics but I do agree with their goal of securing an Israeli future. I am no bigot, only a staunch supporter of my people. If they can livein peace with the Palestinians, great. If they can't, and there's no hope for coexistance, it's my hope that the Jews win. Plain and simple.

The difference between the extremist Zionists and the Neo-Nazis is that the nazis want the jews, among many others, gone from this earth unequivocally. There is no threat from the groups they dispise. They simply disagree with them existing--much like many Palestinians disagree with the Jews existing.

The only thing a Zionist is guilty of is violently disagreeing with those who want to murder and displace their families. As stated in the Dictionary.com Definition, Zionism is a REACTION to antisemitism. A defense.

You seem like a nice guy, Staga, but I reserve no kindness for anyone who thoroughly understands the concept of Zionism and maintains that it is evil. I hope you are not one of these people--for they are the true bigots.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 03:26:46 PM by Capt. Pork »

Offline Capt. Pork

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« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2004, 03:57:07 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Yes, and the fascist had some very flattering descriptions of themselves too.

Did you ever read what was on that site? They had a nice final solution to the Palestinian problem there ... including Israeli citizens of Arab ancestry.


Pardon me, I seem to recall you comparing Zionists(unfavorably) to Nazis.

Did you read the definition of Zionist?

Did you read the MLK quote?

What did I say in my last response to Staga?

I'll paraphrase: I don't agree with their tactics, nor do I agree with their policies, I agree only with their goal of insuring a future for Israel.

I'll repeat that, in deference to you, I don't agree with their tactics...Only their goal of insuring a future for Israel.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 03:59:48 PM by Capt. Pork »

Offline Charon

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« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2004, 04:03:07 PM »
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The only thing a Zionist is guilty of is violently disagreeing with those who want to murder and displace their families. As stated in the Dictionary.com Definition, Zionism is a REACTION to antisemitism. A defense.


That's a bit simplistic, isn't it? They also believe in a god given right to land, including the West bank, which already has an indigenous population living on it. And, the people who "want to murder and displace their families" somehow managed to live in fairly peaceful coexistence with Middle Eastern Jews until the European led Zionist movement began to take hold in the early to mid 1900s.

"Being both Jewish and of Eastern European heritage" you seem to remember the anti-semitic anti minority motivations of Nazi Germany, as we all should. But there is another part you seem to overlook. Adolph Hitler didn't invade Russia to kill the Jews. He invaded it to give Germany the colonial territory it deserved, as a natural blood right, that happened to be occupied by people of lesser value. Of course, it was presented to the German people as providing security from the Bolshevik threat, but any reading of Mein Kampf clearly shows Hitler’s territorial goals.

Still, comparing modern Zionists to Nazi's is a bit extreme. I tend to side more with the apartheid comparison myself. [edit: and of course, there are plenty of Israeli Jews, like the good folks at Gush Shalom who also have an opinion on Zionism]

Charon
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 04:15:57 PM by Charon »

Offline Capt. Pork

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« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2004, 04:13:18 PM »
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Originally posted by Charon
That's a bit simplistic, isn't it? They also believe in a god given right to land, including the West bank, which already has an indigenous population living on it. And, the people who "want to murder and displace their families" somehow managed to live in fairly peaceful coexistence with Middle Eastern Jews until the European led Zionist movement began to take hold in the early to mid 1900s.

"Being both Jewish and of Eastern European heritage" you seem to remember the anti-semitic anti minority motivations of Nazi Germany, as we all should. But there is another part you seem to overlook. Adolph Hitler didn't invade Russia to kill the Jews. He invaded it to give Germany the colonial territory it deserved, as a natural blood right, that happened to be occupied by people of lesser value. Of course, it was presented to the German people as providing security from the Bolshevik threat, but any reading of Mein Kampf clearly shows Hitler’s territorial goals.

Still, comparing modern Zionists to Nazi's is a bit extreme. I tend to side more with the apartheid comparison myself.

Charon


If you want to discuss colonization, that's a whole separate debate. Some argue that the land had jewish roots going back thousands of years. Do rights to land get grandfathered-in from 200 generations prior? Perhaps, perhaps not... The truth remains that Jews did not enter the current region of Israel for the first time in the late 19th, early 20th century. Comparing the land-oriented ambitions of Hitler and those of the Zionists of the last century is not unlike comparing Mein Kampf to the Old Testament.

Offline Capt. Pork

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« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2004, 04:24:57 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
I'm not really interested in you rationalisations. As long as they advocate racial and religious discrimination and ethnic cleansing, everything else they stand for is invalidated. They belong on that ship with the Nazis.


You're really good at quoting only the things that serve to make your responses sound righteous and pretty.

I'm still curious as to whether or not you understand the initial mistake you made in lumping all Zionists into this category of extremists.

Offline Capt. Pork

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« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2004, 04:51:04 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Yes they're pretty much equal when it comes to racism. Of course the Zionists are a lot better organized, educated and well spoken than the Neo-Nazi rabble, but that just makes them more frightening.


This is the post that I had a problem with.

Yes, the people on the site Staga linked are very much extremists, and they do give a bad name to Zionism. My quarrel with you was your blanketing word-choice, because in your assertion that Zionists are more frightening than the Neo-Nazi rabble, you are include most Israeli Jews.

If this is an argument of semantics, I propose we end it here.

Offline Saurdaukar

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« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2004, 05:35:42 PM »
G - you sure youre not on that site?

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2004, 05:54:50 PM »
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and they do give a bad name to Zionism


lol How can you give a bad name to Zionism?

Zionism is why Palestinian homes are bulldozed. Zionism is why Jews exploded a bomb in the King David Hotel etc...

 Here's nice list of various acts of Zionist terrorism over the years...

In 1931 Irgun Zvai Leumi (National Military Organization) was founded in Jerusalem; led by Avraham Tehomi, it advocated armed Jewish insurrection against British rule and war against Palestinian Arabs.

August 20, 1937 - June 29, 1939. Zionists carried out a series of attacks against Arab buses, resulting in the death of 24 persons and wounding 25 others.

November 25, 1940. S.S.Patria was blown up by Jewish terrorists in Haifa harbour, killing 268 illegal Jewish immigrants

November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.

July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the central offices of the civilian administration of the government of Palestine, killing or injuring more than 200 persons. The Irgun officially claimed responsibility for the incident, but subsequent evidence indicated that both the Haganah and the Jewish Agency were involved.

October 1, 1946. The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.

June 1947. Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.

September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. (The Sunday Times, Sept. 24, 1972, p.8)

December 11, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 13,1947. Zionist terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas. In Jerusalem, bombs were thrown in an Arab market-place near the Damascus Gate; in Jaffa, bombs were thrown into an Arab cafe; in the Arab village of Al Abbasya, near Lydda, 12 Arabs were killed in an attack with mortars and automatic weapons.

December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses, in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

December 30,1947. A mixed force of the Zionist Palmach and the "Carmel Brigade" attacked the village of Balad al Sheikh, killing more than 60 Arabs.

1947 -- 1948. Over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were uprooted from their homes and land, and forced to live in refugee camps on Israel's borders. They have been denied the right to return to their homes. They have been refused compensation for their homes, orchards, farms and other property stolen from them by the Israeli government. After their expulsion, the "Israeli Forces" totally obliterated (usually by bulldozing) 385 Arab villages and towns, out of a total of 475. Commonly, Israeli villages were built on the remaining rubble.

January 1, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked a village on the slopes of Mount Carmel; 17 Arabs were killed and 33 wounded.

January 4, 1948. Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) which was used as a headquarters of the Arab National Committee, killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.

January 5, 1948. The Arab-owned Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was blown up, killing 20 persons, among them Viscount de Tapia, the Spanish Consul. Haganah admitted responsibility for this crime.

January 7, 1948. Seventeen Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, 3 of them while trying to escape. Further casualties, including the murder of a British officer near Hebron, were reported from different parts of the country.

January 16, 1948. Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.

February 15, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blew up several houses, killing 11 Arabs, including 4 children..

March 3, 1948. Heavy damage was done to the Arab-owned Salam building in Haifa (a 7 story block of apartments and shops) by Zionists who drove an army lorry ( truck) up to the building and escaped before the detonation of 400 Ib. of explosives; casualties numbered 11 Arabs and 3 Armenians killed and 23 injured. The Stern Gang claimed responsibility for the incident.

March 22, 1948. A housing block in Iraq Street in Haifa was blown up killing 17 and injuring 100 others. Four members of the Stern Gang drove two truck-loads of explosives into the street and abandoned the vehicles before the explosion.

March 31, 1948. The Cairo-Haifa Express was mined, for the second time in a month, by an electronically-detonated land mine near Benyamina, killing 40 persons and wounding 60 others.

April 9, 1948. A combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, supported by the Palmach forces, captured the Arab village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including countless women and children. Older men and young women were captured and paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then shot in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul.

April 16, 1948. Zionists attacked the former British army camp at Tel Litvinsky, killing 90 Arabs there.

April 19, 1948. Fourteen Arabs were killed in a house in Tiberias, which was blown up by Zionist terrorists.

May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.

May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.

April 25, 1948 -- May 13, 1948. Wholesale looting of Jaffa was carried out following armed attacks by Irgun and Haganah terrorists. They stripped and carried away everything they could, destroying what they could not take with them.

The first act of air piracy in the history of civil aviation was carried out by Israel, in Dec. 1954, when a civilian Syrian airliner was forced down in Tel Aviv and its passengers and crew held for days, despite international condemnation.

In 1968, Israeli commandos blew up 13 civilian airliners at Beirut airport in Lebanon.

The first deliberate shooting down a civilian airliner was carried out by Israel, when a Libyan airliner was shot down by Israeli jet fighters over Sinai, in Feb. 1973, on the direct orders of Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir, killing all 107 of its passengers and the entire French crew.

I can post more if you like, but I would assume you get the picture...

I do think its an extreme comparison between Zionism and Nazism. I would think a better comparison would be bewteen Zionism and Apartheid.

Being Anti-Zionist doesnt = Anti-Semetism or even being anti-Jewish. I have met Jews who are anti-Zionist.

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2004, 07:28:25 PM »
The difference in what is being discussed and what the idiots on that site is that most of the other conflicts are based on religion , land possesion, etc.  . The people in the org on the site are all about one thing, color, no matter how thinly it is veiled.
  These guys are socialy rejected by society all their life , then they find this group and they are accepted. Sort of like kids joining street gangs. They relate to it as being accepted, family if you will.
  The majority of these people haven`t got a clue what they are actualy supposed to be about or the background. They just repeat the BS that was told to them to look cool to their new family.
  Most are scared little rabbits with no briar patch to hide in.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline RTStuka

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« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2004, 07:44:11 PM »
Jesus, these guys even like the french as long as they are white. I dont understand how someone can feel such hate, I understand having your belifs but this is way past any point of reason and understanding. I especially enjoy the parts where they call each other idiots lol like any of them is more than white trash.

Offline SLO

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« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2004, 09:03:42 PM »
Hmmm, wierd

Offline Rino

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« Reply #71 on: July 22, 2004, 09:14:45 PM »
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Originally posted by Nilsen
total braincell number on the site?


-edit- do you know of a site with huge highres photos of whatever?


     That's gotta be an extremely high estimate.
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Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #72 on: July 22, 2004, 10:31:43 PM »
why don't we all register and rant the site.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Offline 38ruk

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« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2004, 11:03:49 PM »
how many cable modems do we have here , any t1's or 3's?   hmmmm lets see if i can ping that site hehehe

Offline Capt. Pork

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« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2004, 11:54:10 PM »
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Originally posted by Wotan
Being Anti-Zionist doesnt = Anti-Semetism or even being anti-Jewish. I have met Jews who are anti-Zionist.


Well, like I said before, people with more credentials than you will disagree, Martin Luther King being one of them. Personally, I'd rather take the word of one of the most elequent and benevolent civil-rights leaders of our time than some anonymous BBS poster who seems to know every detail there is about this particular Aryan group.

To repeat, for the last time, and I'm sure to no effect whatsoever... Being anti-extremist is one thing, but if you're anti-zionist, you're against the Jewish state, plain and simple.

You guys can argue this point, over and over, but it won't change the fact that any Israeli living and working for the existance of Israel is a Zionist.

Scholtz, I have no idea what link you're talking about, unless it's the same one Staga posted. If it is, yeah, I've been to their site... They're crazy. Case closed.