Terror in the Sky, a Co-alt N1K2

[BUG_EAF322]

The niki killed me 2x and got killed 6 x this tour by me in my p38.  

Because i hate them hehehe

losing against them means a tactical error not a flying one.

the CHog is much worser got me killed about 12X and got killed 6X The FW-a8 got me about 5X while i never touched it. Damn focke warp
 

[Minotaur]

 

Originally posted by Minotaur:
<snip>

How does every one else deal with this situation, of a Niki Co-Alt?  Stay d3.0 away and not engage has been my only solution.

Niki on my six, I'm dead....

<snip>

Hmmm.....

Please stop the uber flame fest, this is not the intention of my thread.  My apologies if my wording indicates this is my desire.

I am interested in tactics that will help me beat the N1K2 and that is all![/list]

I fly predominately US Iron with an occasional La5-FN or 190A5.

Thanks in Advance!  


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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble

[Nash]

"Nash: this is NOT the same niki. The only thing that remains is the artwork. The FM is a completly different beast. There has been SEVERAL fm changes through the game, and in the last one, the niki got its super fix' - Animal

Ah, yer right about the FM changes. I just assumed the latest FM tweaks changed all the planes the same, relative to eachother. Could be that HTC is in error with the Niki..I honestly don't know.

I'm having trouble, though, in making sense of the part of your post where you attempt to demonstrate the Niki's uberness:

"But this niki is just TOO good for a P-38 pilot. The P-38 sucks now. Its performance relative to other planes in the arena is practically the same as back in 1.03. The niki is too good.

Paraphrased, you say the Niki is too good because the 38 sucks. Uhm... well, OK.

The Niki has always been a great ride. I think perhaps now its gettin' the attention it deserves. Like I said, it will pass  

[Nash]

Oops - sorry Mino. Between this post and the current ranting in the MA re the Niki, this was just a case of bad timing.

So... How do ya fight a Niki Co-Alt? Pretend it's a spit and fight accordingly.

[AKSeaWulfe]

N1K2 vs 190A5: Drag him to the deck, gain distance and force him into a series of rolling scissors. Shaw's book as a good diagram of this. Use throttle to assist in forcing overshoots.

P51 vs N1K2: Run away, get alt advantage.

109F4 w/gondolas vs N1K2: You can pretty much dogfight him as you want with this setup, so I assume the single cannon F4 would be raping the N1K2.

All other planes, except spits n zeros, have a freaking wingman.

I've forced seperations when the N1K2 was only 300yds behind me in an La5FN and 190A5 and 109F4 w/gondolas to around 2.3K. Keeping your plane within his realm is what gets you killed.. and his realm is anywhere within 600yds of his airplane. What I like to do is force a quick series of reversals then extend. If all goes well, I'll eventually kill him.

Hope this is what you are looking for Mino.

-SW

[NUTTZ]

I flew the niki since first beta, there doesn't seam to be any FM change except the guns load out. The Niki cannot out run most any plane. The niki has some great advantages and disadvantages JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER PLANE! It's hardly "uber", Most good f4 pilots can easily kill a niki. Yaks,109's,la5's all seam to out turn the niki. Niki's roll rate is HORRIBLE, it's E retention is one of it's best features, but hardly THE top E retainer plane. It's lightweight airframe makes it fall prey to bullets pretty easy. In a sustained turn it holds E well, but climbs poorly. IMO, I think this dieing by Niki's is an Ego thing, for it surely isn't of the "uber" quality i am hearing.
It's more the pilot than it is the plane.
Second, if you noticed peoples learning curves are different, many of us have been here since day one, some of the "newer" pilots are just catching up in skills. Now to get a kill, we must dig deeper into OUR ownskill pocket.

NUTTZ

[bigUC]

Nikis overrated imho - this is my score against nikis:

BigUC has 13 kills and has been killed 5 times in the Spitfire Mk IX against the N1K2.

I've been flying about 3 weeks as a paying member? (no jokes please) + a few weeks back in beta - I found that u can always win a turnfight in spit vs. niki.  (And they DO like to turn!)

[bigUC]

Whops- my post will make more (less) sense with this:
BigUC has 76 kills and has been killed 64 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.

My opinion: the best plane in AH is the one flown by the best pilot!  Mitsu, Citabria, StSanta (u know who etc.) should fly using the keyboard! :-)

[Wardog]

Coalt Typhoon can handle N1K2 just fine. Although is does keep E well.

Tour 9 Stats in tiffy so far.

Wardog has 131 kills and has been killed 40 times in the Typhoon IB.


Dog out....

[Animal]

I am not saying the P-38 sucks because the niki "rules".

I am just saying that the niki benefited more from the FM change than the P-38 (and almost every other plane)

In 1.03 the P-38 was a competent plane; not exceedingly good, but a good hunter. I once had a chat with HT late at night on the MA, back in 1.03, in wich he stated that the P-38 was the best plane if flown by a good pilot. Back in 1.03 P-38 and 109 pilots had to fight smart; bleed the enemy's E and then finish them off. It was hard but it was fun. You cant do this to a niki anymore. If you try to bleed his E, you will just end with no E yourself.

He probably meant that any plane is the best on the hands of a good pilot, but given the conversation, and a few other things he said, the true meaning of his statement was that the P-38 had advantages that were harder to exploit, but very good advantages. In other words, it needs a good pilot to fly a P-38 well in combat.

A Niki doesnt seem to require a good pilot at all, I have seen newbies who fly a few hours on the TA and become experts with the niki.

My "FIX THE P-38!!!" posts were KIDDING, this is MY FIRST serious post in the board. I try to be a playful and exagerated character in the game and here, most people know it. Its not like HT will EVER listen to me for anything in the game. I have no say whatsoever in this game, I only pay and fly. Thats it. But this is a social game, and if I want to say "THE P38 IS SUPPOSED TO TURN BETTER THAN THE ZERO AND FLY FASTER THAN THE PONY" you can think I am being serious and flame me, or just know I am joking. I have noticed many people in the AH who will take any opportunity to flame FELLOW players.

From now on I will shut up about the P-38. It seems that liking a plane can be enough to piss off other people. I really dont understand what is the problem between LW and ALLIED pilots. They seem to hate each other just for liking different planes. I want no part in this peeing contest.

I am gonna stop typing now; English is not my native language and I sometimes have trouble comunicating my ideas, and I am afraid someone might use that and quote contradictions or whatever just to try and make me sound stupid (I hate when people do that to someone)

With the outmost respect,
animal

p.s: I am out of the 'PROVE IT, PROOOOOOOOOOOOVE THE NIKI IS PORKED!!' debate. Soon another plane will come with better characteristics and everyone will move to that. I will stay in that big plane people hate so much, trying to be the best pilot in it  

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
Animal,
Provide evidence/proof that it is doing things that are not historical.

If you are merely basing this on your personal experiences/desires regarding the P-38/N1K2 then please qualify your remarks as things that you feel are off.

You are aware that the US stopped P-38 development because it wasn't as good as the P-51 and P-47, right?  Don't expect it to be an arena dominating aircraft.

Now, if you can provide actual data that says its modeled wrong, do so.  Stop with the meaningless "Fix the P-38" messages.

Sisu
-Karnak

Karnak, for the most part the P-38 was dropped because they could crank out more P-51's, and cheaper. Not because it was that much of an inferior plane. Had the K model P-38 ever gone into production it'd be equal to better then the P-51, but you know the US government  

I've only seen data on the N1K1-Ja, but it's so different then the N1K2 I doubt it'd be very relavent. I do know the flap system is porked on the Geroge tho. I dunno if the information on the Geroge is based on the Japanese fuel or the US fuel, but that can make a drastic difference.

Rudder authority on the George does seem a little to good though...least I would think so...it has a very very small rudder.

- Jig

[Hangtime]

Wow. Niki's ARE dangerous.. several of them at once are a freakin infestation. And I agree.. there are a lot more of them around lately. I think we need to bomb the factory again.  

Best way to deal with 'em Mino is to keep him under you and at a lower e state. If he get's co-e yer lost unless u have a Spit or Yak.. I'll often turn him a few times then extend away if I miss the shots. They have fragile tails.. I usually try to pop 'em with B&Z snapshots till parts come off.. then I'll turn with him.  

Good Luck!

Hang

[Nash]

.

[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 10-14-2000).]

[Animal]

Hang,
If you were a woman (or highly gay) I'd marry you.

No, seriously, the niki in AH performs TOO WELL. If the Japanesse had the niki we have (and US teamwork tactics) we'd have small, lined eyes, and beautiful thin women  

peace men.

[StSanta]

Well, the thing about the N1K is phantom e retention, Vvery good low speed handling on top of loops and the ability to break turn at will. Planes that should not have such a problem with the N1K would be true T&B'ers like the Spitfire.

For 190 drivers, it's a nightmare. The N1K can slowly turn, then just turn enough to spoil a shot, revrse zoom up and catch yoou. Bleeding a 190's e when you're in a N1K is very easy.

Against the 109G10, the procedure is the same, but the N1K will be on the defensive, quite easly avoiding any shots taken by the G10 pilot if this pilot is careful. If he forces the shot, he might get snapshots at the cost of a good deal of e. Shooting down N1K's in the 109 takes a good deal of time.

Like the Spit, the N1K is very good for people who like the HO approach both for offense and defense - point nose at enemy, get a 50/50 chance and force the enemy (if the pilot is smart) to waste e and position avoiding the HO. Unfortunately, like in the tsook, a rather large segment of pilots find this approach very enjoyable it seems.

Tshjook is still the uber ride of b&z'ers, followed by the Tiffie and P-51. Against a 109G10 co alt, the thsjook still dies, because it cannot outturn it, outrun it or outclimb it. It might live if it dives away and runs, using roll rate to maximize the difference between the thsjooks good high speed handling and the 109G10's very sucky one.

Something *seems* to be wrong with the FM of the N1K. I've come across so many of 'um, but only managed to down 9, and have died twice in the process. Oh well. N1K's in pre-1.04 were my favourite prey, now, they're annoying because they've removed some of the diversity there previously was.


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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"